New LOW: Sick, Twisted People at Huntington Beach Community Forum Belittle Middle-Schoolers

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So, get this. Tuesday night at the HB City Council meeting, middle school kids from Pegasus School, a K-8 private school in Huntington Beach, came to the city council and spoke in favor of keeping the reusable bag ordinance, as they have done several times since the issue came up in 2010.

Part of Pegasus’ mission, as stated on their website, is: “…the belief that strong intellect and a passion for learning should be nurtured and inspired and that learning is a lifelong process. We are grounded in an authentic commitment to service, embracing the opportunity borne by educating bright, capable students.” One of their areas of focus is environmental sustainability.

As I said before, these “bright, capable students” have spoken before at the city council meetings and have demonstrated time and again their mastery of the issues.

Young people who come to speak at city council meetings should be encouraged and welcomed. It is inspiring and uplifting to see kids getting involved in the civic process.

They certainly shouldn’t be ridiculed. But that is precisely what people on Facebook’s Huntington Beach Community Forum did today. The Huntington Beach Community Forum is a Tea Party forum, that routinely features name-calling, rumor-spreading, bullying and other offensive behavior. But this is a NEW LOW. Even newly appointed Huntington Beach Planning commissioner Michael Hoskinson participated in this disgraceful behavior.

Yes, the planning commissioner and other HBCF leaders taunted Huntington Beach school children, calling them “booger eaters” “shrill” “factoid spouting robots” “angry” “brains full of mush” “coached and brainwashed.”

But don’t take my word for it. Read it yourself:

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  101 comments for “New LOW: Sick, Twisted People at Huntington Beach Community Forum Belittle Middle-Schoolers

  1. Lou
    January 21, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    This is disgusting. As a parent, I am truly angry by this. I hope that Planning Commissioner gets fired!

  2. Pat
    January 22, 2015 at 1:33 am

    There were people defending the kids on the HBCF, even though we disagreed with their stance. The only thing true thing about the Left Wing and Right Wing, they only tell half the facts.

  3. Rocco
    January 22, 2015 at 6:29 am

    Have fun in Nebraska Joe! You won’t be missed! And shame on the school and parents for indoctrinating their kids with lies!

    • January 22, 2015 at 5:03 pm

      This isn’t true at all; there re a number of HB residents who will miss Joe.

    • January 22, 2015 at 9:15 pm

      I don’t condone bullying in any form, however the goal of an educational environment is to teach students. It’s not our goal to teach them what to think but how to develop the understanding they need to be able to make their own decisions. Often, it is also our job to support them when they have made the choice to do something to incite change. This teacher chose to teach her students about a grassroots campaign: in our school we run a community service challenge that gives students the information they need to think critically and incite change in their own communities. In the context of an initiative where students were actively engaged in picking garbage up from the beaches, creating a survey to find out how many citizens are negatively affected by the bags, and including their own anecdotal evidence, I could see how this would be an effective teaching tool. What sort of awful people would criticize children this way?

  4. junior
    January 22, 2015 at 6:45 am

    It seems to me that using kids as “political props” is pretty low, sick & twisted.

  5. Mike Hoskinson
    January 22, 2015 at 7:25 am

    Folks, a bunch of this vitriol is being directed at me personally. As the kids were speaking I mentioned that I was “concerned about what they were being taught at that school”. I also feel the speeches they gave had more a mature voice and that they were highly coached. Many of the repeal opponents have chosen to direct their anger at the CC vote going against their ideology at me because of that statement. That’s fine, i’ve got my big boy pants on and can handle it. I hate children being used for propaganda purposes for any reason and stand by my concern that these children are being taught to be environmental agitators and not being allowed to just be kids, nothing good will come from using them as political props.

    • Greg
      January 22, 2015 at 7:36 am

      It is directed primarily at you because of all the people engaging in that online jabber, you’re the only one who is an appointed city official, Hoskinson. You should be held to a higher standard!

    • Joe Shaw
      January 22, 2015 at 7:52 am

      Hoskinson, you don’t get it. If these kids agreed with you, you’d be praising them all over the place. You’re still insulting them now by saying they are not smart enough or articulate enough to write their own speeches or have their own opinions. Plenty of kids come to the City Council and speak on all sorts of topics. They should be PRAISED and ENCOURAGED. Not denigrated.

      • Daniel burbidge
        January 22, 2015 at 7:58 am

        If it were up to you joe you would indoctrinate them into a moraless society, go away, you lost. Remember?

        • January 22, 2015 at 8:37 am

          Oh, moral-less – because he’s gay right?

          People don’t have to go away OR shut up when they lose an election – what sort of fascist fantasizes that?

          Go back to your forum and bitch about Joe and the kids there.

      • Clay Allison
        January 23, 2015 at 7:01 am

        You, sir, are the LAST person who should be admonishing anyone about how they interact with someone who doesn’t agree with them. Anyone who attempted to engage in any point of debate with you (and Connie Boardman) were blocked from your website, then belittled and vilified, from the City Council dais, yet. This is just one of the many reasons that you were put off our local government. Remove the log from your own eye, please.

      • Michael Hoskinson
        January 24, 2015 at 12:25 pm

        Mr. Shaw, if a group of children were in front of any governing body asking to outlaw abortion you’d be at the front of the line screaming for their little heads, you and I know that. Please take a tip from George Bush and refrain from vitriol and blame after leaving office, it only sullies your legacy.

        • January 24, 2015 at 10:10 pm

          And if the same group of kids were asking for sex education and birth control, or the formation of an LGBTQ club on campus, you’d have a fit

    • January 22, 2015 at 10:03 am

      unless of course conservatives want to use them as political props……

    • January 22, 2015 at 10:03 am

      would you like to apologize for calling a kid a “booger eater?”

    • CrAig
      January 22, 2015 at 2:49 pm

      You and all members of that council who chimed in with snarky remarks need to resign immediately. There’s no place in Government for people like you. What a disgrace you and the rest of the members of that council are to taxpayers, citizens and human beings. To put it in “Surf City” lingo, you’re done, brah. Time to move on.

    • Dan Chmielewski
      January 22, 2015 at 7:45 pm

      Brave comments on Facebook Mike. Not.

    • Kristen Kindell
      January 22, 2015 at 9:20 pm

      I am blown away by all of this. Not that it went down on the HBCF but that you were part of it. Shame on you Michael. And thank God I am not a part of that negative bully group YOU call and forum and wanted to be a part of no matter what you had to do.

    • Anton Marc
      January 25, 2015 at 8:52 am

      It is not surprising that a conservative in an appointed position would be hostile to environmental concerns. Nor am I shocked that you would ignore the fact that environmental impacts are specific component of your duties as a planning commissioner. What is most disturbing is your seeming lack of understanding regarding the maturity and intellect of middle school children, that you would choose to make their attempts to engage in civic discourse an opportunity to embarrass them and discourage them from further civic engagement. It is also nothing short of stupid to have you claiming they are being used as part of an “environmental agitator” agenda, as political props rather than concerned kids interested in the quality of the world they are inheriting. You are choosing to display your political agenda (I’ll bet you are a critic and opponent of the Pegasus School) and intolerance of ideas.

  6. Elaine
    January 22, 2015 at 7:34 am

    Feeling threatened by and going after articulate, educated kids is telling, small minded and unkind to say the very least. I continue to be disappointed by the depths these forums, FB pages and the general discourse in Huntington Beach have sunk to. Time for some serious soul searching, folks.

  7. Connie Boardman
    January 22, 2015 at 8:23 am

    Bullies. Adult bullies picking on 12 and 13 year old kids. Thank you to the people on HBCF who stood up to the bullies, to defend the kids, but the scene shots show really disgusting comments about our children. “Booger eaters”. Really? This is really an adult in Huntington Beach who called middle school kids this?
    What is even more insulting is the idea that 12 and 13 year olds can’t think critically and develop their own arguments. Of course they can!
    We should all be encouraging kids to become involved in the community regardless of our political views. We should be thankful there are children like these in our community who took the time to do the research our own city council members could not or did not.
    I am very proud of them and hope when they complete their education wherever they choose to do so they come back to Huntington Beach as adults to raise their families. Great job kids-you and your parents should be very proud of you. Don’t let these nasty comments bother you, those comments speak volumes about those who made them but say nothing about you.

    • January 22, 2015 at 11:25 am

      I think the kids need to come back to the next council meeting and address the lies and insults being directed at them in this forum

      • January 22, 2015 at 1:11 pm

        Yes, Dan, I hope they do.

      • Kristen Kindell
        January 22, 2015 at 9:21 pm

        I would be there to support the kids….

  8. James
    January 22, 2015 at 8:36 am

    I can’t take anything that is stated in this story seriously, when it is full of so much lies and embellishments to warp it to a more interesting story than it is. This is clearly not a Tea Party forum, because I would never belong to such a narrow minded group as those found in three Tea Party. I see as much hate you claim comes from the HBCF on this site.

    • January 22, 2015 at 10:01 am

      look at the comments on all the screen captures….please point out the lies.

      • James
        January 23, 2015 at 7:09 am

        The Tea Party one is the biggest lie and hyperbole in this story. Rags like this like to jump things into the extreme. There were also plenty of people that stated positive things about the kids. Those that stated the extreme negative were wrong, but to group everyone in that forum as one thing is total misinformation.

        • January 23, 2015 at 8:44 am

          “Rags?” We’re all digital pal. Welcome to the 21st century

  9. Keith schnekenburger
    January 22, 2015 at 8:51 am

    Connive and Joe
    I am the Father of six Children….bully…hardly..I too think kids participating is a great thing…but the Pagasus gang of kids were angry in tone and in posture…even pointing fingers in a jabbing motion at council members….I was 5 feet away from them and in fact they were being coached right before they spoke…that’s ok too…I have coached youth sports for 25 yrs…respect is important especially if your 12 yrs old and speaking to adults…a another young lady spoke after the Paguses gang of 4 who was for keeping the bag ban in place..her presentation was concise and on point and very respectful…no one commented…Connie And Joe as most angry leftist you have no sense of humor “booger eaters”…very funny…be 12 or 55 whining and being a sore loser as you two are is never a good thing…Cheers

    • David
      January 22, 2015 at 9:01 am

      Calling a 12 year old a “booger eater” is your idea of having a sence of humor? I feel sorry for you Kieth. And I feel even sorrier for the fact that you felt the need to breed six children into this world to a father with warped ethics. Cheers!

  10. David
    January 22, 2015 at 8:52 am

    It’s nice to see the OC Weekly calling out Hoskinson on his outrageous comments. Mike Hoskinson may have his “big boy pants on”, but apparently he put them on backwards. I can hardly wait for the next installment of Mike sticking his foot in his mouth. Go get ’em Mike!

    • Dan Chmielewski
      January 22, 2015 at 9:51 am

      too bad OC Weekly can’t even identify TheLiberalOC as the source; nice job on this Joe

  11. Shaun
    January 22, 2015 at 9:01 am

    First – in support of Michael Hoskinson, He was general congratulatory of the kids as brave to stand up and speak. He was not rude or disrespectful regarding the kids. The issue we all have (in general) is that None of the kids facts were accurate, nor had much to with the plastic grocery bags issue. They had trash and debris statistics, which is a whole different topic. Their speeches were meant to inflate emotion and gain sympathy as youth – pawns used in Boardman’s sick game. Kids should never be used as pawns and their adult coaches and parents should have fact checked their speeches before letting them spout inaccuracies. As it was, the ‘show’ hurt the pro bag ban cause as it was so transparently ‘put on’.

    I’m disappointed in Boardman and Shaw as ex City Council persons, who are still public figures by state definition – that they so poorly represents current and past city leadership as well as the HB community. They were voted OUT of office, for good reasons, yet the sour grapes continue to fly through the air (speeches) and Intranet.

    The HBCF is a well rounded group of Left, Right and middle… All who are deeply passionate about the current state (mess) left by previous leadership, and looking forward to the future through positive involvement, activism and change. Yes, some people may be slightly inappropriate, joke (“booger eaters”) and others will resort to name calling sometimes… But that’s life in the real world when dealing with over 8,000+ members from all walks of life. The ONE and most important element they have in common, is that they ALL live in HB. Secondly, they care for this great city. I’ve personally gotten into very heated debates with folks on the opposite sides of issues like this bag ban. But in the end, the respect is still there and we can all shake hands when we meet at the City Council meetings as the much needed watchdog group we are.

    Transparency in HB’s city government is no longer a dream. It’s a reality. We are here, watching, waiting, bringing up the issues, and will be relentless and force change to correct the nanny-state mistakes of previous leadership, including forcing needed change in leadership (as seen in the last, historic election). And we will continue to push on the long standing issues that have been plaguing our city for over a decade.

    • David
      January 22, 2015 at 9:18 am

      Hey Shaun, have a look at the photo’s on Hoskinson’s Facebook page and tell me if you still support him. His full blown racist hate mongering is disgusting and dangerous. Mike Hoskinson is an embarassment to Huntington Beach in the same league as the Pam Juliens and Dave Garafallos that preceded him.

      • Shaun
        January 22, 2015 at 9:38 am

        David,

        I strongly disagree with you re Mike and his FB page. The only thing I see there with Mike is that he strongly opposes radical Islamists, as I do, and I assume the rest of non radical Islamists do. The recent radical fatal attacks on innocents has caused outrage from all over the world. Outrage and protest does not equate to hate and racism.

        There is nothing that I’ve heard or seen from Mike that even suggests hate or racism towards anyone.

        • David
          January 22, 2015 at 10:54 am

          Shaun, pull your head out of the sand for a moment and look at those photos again. They refer to Islam as a whole. There is no mention of “radical”. Hoskinson paints the entire religion of Islam with one broad stroke. Not fair, not right. Hateful, racist and inflamitory, YES! Hoskinson should be banned from holding any public office, just based on that one Facebook post alone. His views are slanted and small minded.

          • Rob
            January 22, 2015 at 3:35 pm

            Shaun, get a grip. Look in a mirror re your comments on racism, please tell us all how all Muslims are of the same race.

            • Rob
              January 22, 2015 at 3:37 pm

              My last comment re racism was meant for David, not Shaun.

    • January 22, 2015 at 9:58 am

      HBCF has lefties? Liberals? Really…provide examples please

      • Shaun
        January 22, 2015 at 10:55 am

        Dan, if you are an HB resident, you can see the myriad of Lefties’ and Liberals’ posts and comments on HBCF, who are all HBCF members. Recent examples include those many who are pro Obama’s liberal initiatives, pro ‘free’ healthcare, pro ‘free’ college, (using ‘free’ loosely here), those supporting increased taxation of the rich amd California middle class and the social engineering/gap narrowing between poor/middle class/rich. Almost any liberal/lefty agenda and point of view is represented by HBCF members.

        • January 22, 2015 at 1:48 pm

          Good to know lefties are represented, but they certainly don’t march lockstep with the conservatives and tea partiers as was implied.

      • January 22, 2015 at 1:16 pm

        comment redacted for blogwhoriness/editor

        • January 22, 2015 at 1:48 pm

          yes, its blog whory Vern because you’re using our site to direct traffic to yours.

          • January 22, 2015 at 1:58 pm

            Weak. If you cared about liberal/environmentalist/progressive values you would WANT HB residents to know where the Facebook forum is where they’d feel at home. I’ll try just saying without the link: HBOpen Community Forum. And I also mentioned that some of us were Joe’s source for this story.

            And I also mentioned that it’s true that there are environmentalists and liberals and progressives on HBCF, including me – we’re just in the minority. But it’s good to argue with people with a different point of view; we often find some common ground, especially against High Density and Poseidon.

            Redact this again, very weak.

            • January 22, 2015 at 2:10 pm

              Vern, Joe Shaw has a more powerful progressive voice than you do and knows HB better than you do, since you spend so much time in Anaheim these days.

              Your public support of conservatives like Tait, Vanderbilt and Chris Phan sort of disqualifies you from claiming progressive leadership on anything.

              • January 22, 2015 at 2:22 pm

                Me & Joe ain’t competing, we’ve been great friends for a decade, and I’ll miss him when he moves to flyover territory.

                Tait? Phan? Sure, sometimes one has to go with honesty and competence.

                • January 22, 2015 at 5:05 pm

                  I’m working on a Tait post you won’t like; neither will he

                • January 22, 2015 at 10:38 pm

                  “I’m working on a Tait post you won’t like; neither will he.”

                  I’m betting neither of us will give a rat’s you-know-what. But knock yourself out!

  12. Keith Schnekenburger
    January 22, 2015 at 9:31 am

    David ….who is so gutless won’t even post last name ….attacking Mike H as a racist….and going after me as a “breeder”…you make my point….respect instead of stating a point is the progressive Leftist way…I sir am a dedicated loving caring Father of six Children who I choose to have…not breed ….which has more racist dog whistle to it than anything Mike H has on his timeline…I have devoted my life to young Children…Coaching Teaching …mentoring etc…based on your immature comments to me …I would guess you are not a Father…it takes courage …commitment ….patience…self sacrifice..love…things I do not believe you have “David”….if that is even your real name

    • January 22, 2015 at 9:57 am

      do you actually agree with the things he posts on his Facebook page?

    • January 22, 2015 at 9:59 am

      Did you really call a 12 year old a “booger eater?” Stay classy Keith

    • David
      January 22, 2015 at 10:45 am

      Keith, it sounds like my comments this morning really got your panties in a bunch. GOOD. Anyone in this day and age that feels the need to add six more people to to an already overpopulated planet is grossly irresponsible. But that’s a debate for another time. Why are you so upset that I choose to not provide my last name. What do you need my last name for? Are you going to show up to my house for some reason? Frankly, when dealing with ultra right wing tea party types, I’d rather you not know where my house is for the safety of my family. Now you mention the word respect in your reply to me. Is your idea of respect to refer to Connie Boardman as “Connive”? Hypocrite. And yes, those photos on Hoskinson’s Facebook page are racist and hateful. I can clearly see why that goes right over your head. Have a GREAT day Keith.

      • Keith Schnekenburger
        January 22, 2015 at 10:55 am

        David
        Feel real sorry for you ….such a pessimist….what exactly on Mikes page is racist…typo that I could not edit in reqards to Connie,s name….I actually don’t dislike Connie or Joe…don’t know them …disagree with there political views and think they should show some grace about being voted out…the world is not over populated and still gutless of you not to post your name…..don’t worry..I am a lover…if I met you in person I would be kind curtious respectful …..would tell you firmly to your face your gutless..then offer to buy you a beer….God Bless you…

        • Dave
          January 22, 2015 at 12:01 pm

          A quote from Keith Schnekenburger: “the world is not overpopulated”. Really?? Try driving on Beach Blvd. at 5:00 pm and see if you feel the same way. Sheesh! Oh, and thanks for the offer of a cold one but I don’t consume alcohol with fools. It’s far to dangerous. If I really need to explain to you what’s racist/hateful/ devicive about Mike’s Facebook page then you have some very serious social issues.

        • January 22, 2015 at 2:16 pm

          Joe and Connie have demonstrated nothing but grace since being replaced on the council.

        • January 22, 2015 at 2:18 pm

          Keith — the “Islam” image with the bloody sword is bigoted; the sign doesn’t reference radical Islam…it reference Islam..the entire faith. Perhaps he could post some photos of the KKK, that radical Christian sect, or maybe the Westboro Baptist Church, as examples of good Christians.

  13. January 22, 2015 at 9:33 am

    Kids are off limits. If\A nd when they speak, you LISTEN. Why wouldn’t a parent coach their kids….it’s not everyday they speak in a room full of half crazed Tea Baggers. If you call this a ploy, we learn from the best – remember WHO paid WHOM to show up at the Toll roads proceedings? (And called out for it as well) But it’s OK when you guys do it, right?

    By the way, when kids have the guts to speak at our meetings (Costa Mesas) it takes a lot and my hats off go out. Thats the future of your city. In Costa Mesa (another disaster thats stacked against the residents) our Mayor Pro Tem resorts to checking his iPhone when kids speak. This is the kind of crap residents have to put up with. If we’re to teach our kids two things from this: 1) Just because the city of HB says plastic bags are OK for their beach, they’re not. And two: Don’t call it Surf City anymore.

    • January 22, 2015 at 9:37 am

      sorry for the typos…one handed this AM and fat fingers…

      • January 22, 2015 at 9:55 am

        typos happen to all of us; I hate when my iPad autocorrects something for me

    • DW
      January 23, 2015 at 9:45 pm

      Why would you elevate kids as somehow higher than us, and we all must listen to them, and they are the future, etc. etc. ? What nonsense!
      We have seen these school kids used in city council meeting after city council meeting. They are used by the bag banners as ploys and props, spouting off ridiculously inaccurate lies and claims. But they are so cute, that the city council and people nod their heads and say “Oh my, they are our next generation, we must listen to them!” (While at the same time, they support plunging our country in debt that they will have to pay, but that is a different point…)
      Obviously, the kids are fed one side of the story. The speaking becomes a “class project.” And it is delivered like a poor school report, where the kid only regurgitates what someone else wrote.
      In every city council where bunches of kids were used like this, NOT ONE opposed the bag ban. They ALL spoke the same tune, emotionally pleas for imaginatry turtles choking on plastic bags (not knowing the photos were staged).

      While it is great that children get involved and speak up, it is disheartening that the first action they take in politics is to stand up and take rights away from their fellow citizens. Especially when it is based on obvious lies.

  14. Ron
    January 22, 2015 at 10:10 am

    While I disagree with most of Joe’s blog here, I will take responsibility for my post of the Charlie and the Chocolate factory meme. Probably not my most discerning moment for which I apologize. I didn’t hear who the first gal was, or that she was in middle school when I posted the meme. I genuinely thought she was a young woman over 18. I didn’t imagine there would be middle school kids commenting. I like seeing kids take an interest in their community. But I do agree, they seemed coached and the message was largely the same if not manufactured. Just my opinion.

  15. No I'm Shawn
    January 22, 2015 at 10:48 am

    Mike H. is a low life, scumbag, with a big mouth. He needs to be careful who and what he blurts out into public forums from this day forward, as numerous parents are very upset with him. Shawn (Gabe M) take your mouth off Mike’s @#&$. We all know how much you like to listen to your own long thought out Rush Linbaugh inspired speeches. Get over yourself. Mike H., I really hope you don’t ever disrespect one of my children!!! You wont know what hit ya, you loud mouth, arrogant, son of @#$%&. Great article Joe, thanks for bringing this to my attention, along with all the families in the Huntington Beach School District. Shawn

    • DW
      January 23, 2015 at 9:55 pm

      Wait, if I take my kid down to the City Council meeting, then have him espouse his view that he blames everyone for the bad mistakes of a few, makes exaggerated or false claims, then tells the city council that they need to take away the rights of businesses and individuals, then I’m not going to complain if people from the other side dare not to agree with him, call him misinformed, or too young to know what he’s talking about. You can’t throw your kid out there in a public forum, then expect no one to take him on. If you are afraid people will disagree, or say things you think are mean THEN DON’T SUBJECT YOUR KID TO IT!
      It’s like putting your child out into an adult boxing ring then saying “I can’t believe someone had the audacity to actually hit my kid!”

      Man people, grow up. This isn’t a junior high school play, this is a PUBLIC CITY COUNCIL MEETING.

  16. January 22, 2015 at 11:30 am

    I will remind parents that most city’s planning commission meetings offer public comment. If you’d like your informed kids to show up and address the commissioner over his “booger eater” reference, he has to listen to it without interruption.

  17. Michele
    January 22, 2015 at 11:44 am

    So glad that I found this Liberal OC page! I just posted this in the comments of the “misguided” people at the HBCF. I am so upset about this.

    “WHAT IS SO BAD ABOUT ADULTS BELITTLING CHILDREN???!!! I am speechless. There is NOTHING PC about simply using your intellect to have a reasonable conversation debating facts and not resulting to below the belt childish attacks of the person. It doesn’t matter if you are an adult to a kid or to another adult. Until you can speak to me in a civil manner, there is no point in trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. I don’t even know why in the world I am having to type all this. Absolutely disgusting.”

  18. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    While some of the posts on HBCF may have gone over the line, to call HBCF a tea party forum is just plain silly. I probably lean towards the viewpoints of the tea party and I can assure you that there are MANY on HBCF I disagree with. It has served very well as a public forum where people in Huntington Beach of all political persuasions can come together and discuss the issues of the city. Joe, you and Connie know that to be true.

    I commented on the thread involving the Pegasus kids. My comments were that their presentation was poor. They simply speed read a paper consisting of many points in their allotted 3 minute time. They would have had much more impact had they concentrated on just one or two points instead of 8 or 10. To me it shows that the parents of these kids aren’t getting their $20,000 worth in the tuition cost of Pegasus School. Any teacher worth a grain of salt would have realized that. Oh, and a sincere question. If a teenager speaks at a city council meeting are their comments protected from scrutiny simply because of their age?

    One final point on HBCF. While most on this website would call me a right wing nut job (I guess its OK to bully conservatives?), I do think for myself. My wife and I stayed till after midnight at that city council meeting. I found the discussion of the preservation of a possible historical site very interesting. I am sure many of the historical preservation speakers were left leaning. And guess what? I found their arguments cogent, well articulated, and persuasive. Had I a vote, I would have voted with Mayor Jill Hardy (obvious left leaning), Council member Peterson (obviously right leaning) and Council member (more of a centrist). I also align myself with many left leaning people on HBCF to fight high density housing in Huntington Beach. I wonder how many here try to find common ground with those on the right to better our cities in Orange County?

    Thanks for listening.

  19. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 12:18 pm

    And, in the spirit of decency, I removed several posts of a more personal nature made against Joe Shaw. I still vehemently disagree with nearly everything you stand for Joe. But my posts were a little over the top. You see, those on the right are not hate mongerers as you would have everyone believe.

  20. junior
    January 22, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    I am not familiar with the context of the “booger eaters” comment. I take it that the comment was made on a Facebook forum and not directly at the children.

    “Booger eaters” within such a forum is no more offensive than “Tea baggers” or “breeders” in this forum – probably much less offensive.

  21. amelia brooke
    January 22, 2015 at 12:28 pm

    Let’s not lose the plot here… A group of adults from a community took to a FB forum and posted PHOTOS of MINOR CHILDREN (they knew they were minors as evidenced by the myriad of remarks about their school, parents, school buses, etc.) and belittled them. Unacceptable.

    There were many individual negative comments made. Bad enough. Then you have the totality of the remarks as a whole. Even more damaging. Any adult who would participate in this kind of thing shows extremely poor judgment and character. To say the very least.

    All the side arguments are just noise. There is no justification for adults behaving this way toward the children in their community.

    • junior
      January 22, 2015 at 12:36 pm

      “A group of adults from a community took to a FB forum and posted PHOTOS of MINOR CHILDREN .. and belittled them. Unacceptable.”

      I would tend to agree.

      Now can we work on (discontinue) the “tea bagger” and “breeder” comments as well?

      • SurfCityChick
        February 4, 2015 at 2:06 am

        @ Junior – That’s not the way it went down at all . . . The Forum Administrators periodically take screen shots of speakers at the Council Meetings to keep the Forum Members updated on who’s speaking at the moment and what they have to say – usually one of our own Forum Members. They also took a couple screen shots of the children speaking at the podium. And these kids were NOT the targets of Belittling or Bullying, nor did any HBCF members have any direct contact with these children – the way Mr. Shaw an Ms. Boardman would like everyone to believe. Yes, children should always be encouraged to speak and form opinions; but it was just the projectile-style delivery of their speeches that had everyone wondering if they had been coerced by adults. Every speech was cute, well thought-out, but tediously the same. I find it odd that Mr. Shaw so deeply disturbed regarding the perceived “treatment” of these children; yet as a Mayor Pro Tem and HB City Councilman showed a complete disregard and disrespect for numerous HBCF speakers at many Council Meetings . . .

    • Shaun
      January 22, 2015 at 12:43 pm

      The City Council meeting was televised (live), recorded, and is available for replay. Taking and posting photos at a “known to be recorded” public event is not wrong. If you think it is, please explain why? In fact, I think there were other press there taking photos for publication of the same kids.

    • SurfCityChick
      February 8, 2015 at 3:34 am

      Amelia . . . Wake Up . . . Did you NOT HEAR what anyone is saying? NO ONE SPECIFICALLY TOOK PICTURES of Just Those CHILDREN! It is always TELEVISED, the MEDIA is always present and Lots of People i.e., PARENTS, TEACHERS, the GENERAL PUBLIC and OTHER SPEAKERS are ALSO there – and LOTS OF PEOPLE TAKE PICTURES!!!

  22. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    Ameila, before you post it might be worth getting your facts straight. Are you a member of HBCF? If you are you would know that NO pictures of those kids were posted.

    The teachers put the kids in the public arena. I suspect the kids had no idea that the council meeting was going to take place unless some adult told them so. Think back to when you were young? Were you aware of the agenda at your city’s council meetings. I know I wasn’t.

    Again I ask a simple question. If a teenager speaks at a city council meeting are their comments protected from scrutiny simply because of their age? I tend to be of the opinion that their comments and presentations are up for public scrutiny just as any adult that would speak.

    The majority of criticisms on HBCF are directed towards the teachers at Pegasus School and the obvious indoctrination that Pegasus School seems to think is OK. I would believe these kids were getting a well rounded education with the availability of all points of view had even ONE child presented an argument different from the others.

  23. junior
    January 22, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    It was wrong to use the kids as political props – and it was wrong to post humiliating public photos of kids.

  24. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 1:09 pm

    junior, please inform me where the humiliating public photos were posted. I have seen NONE. If I am wrong, I will be man enough to admit it.

    • junior
      January 22, 2015 at 3:23 pm

      Rob – I don’t know – I was going by statements made on this thread. Perhaps they don’t exist and it is not true.

  25. Lee Harris
    January 22, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    Leftists like to present themselves as saints and heroes. After I spoke to the city council about liberty, as I was going back up the stairs to my seat, I received numerous hisses and boos uttered under their breath by people sitting along the aisle. You know who you are.

    The kids went to a public forum that was televised. No one has posted any pictures of them. The parents and the people on this forum need to acknowledge that they inserted themselves into the debate by having the kids appear publicly, the video of which is publicly accessible, and that it is forever going to be on the internet available for all to see. So, if you truly want to protect your kids, then don’t use them as mouthpieces for your agenda in a public way that will be seared onto the worldwide web indefinitely.

    • junior
      January 22, 2015 at 3:24 pm

      I can’t disagree with anything you say right here.

  26. Ian
    January 22, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Joe shaw, if you bothered to pull on your ears down hard enough so you can see sun light you could see that most of the comments you shared are attacking the adults behind the madness.

    Please don’t go away mad, just go away. You and Connie fail at being leaders so hard that a white crayon is more useful. You’re just bitter because we voted you out.

    Thanks for proving your incompetence while serving isn’t just an act

  27. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    junior- no problem. Just proves that you can’t believe everything you read on the web! 🙂

  28. Stef
    January 22, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    I am a member of the HBCF and I know Michael. What is being portrayed here is crap. Sorry. But I was proud of the kids for getting up to speak and said so on the forum to which some folks supported my post. No one bullied me for saying I was proud of them. I did also agree that I would have liked to have seen some students present the other side. It would have showed independent thinking and not like it came from staff or teachers. What Michael was pointing out was A different point of view. That these kids were being used to tug at our heart strings because nobody would question kids alternative motives…. But it is the adults behind the kids we need to question. Now. I will confess to speaking out on lots of issues I thought I knew everything about as a teen. And having two teenagers now…. They think they know everything. As adults we need take sure we are sharing both sides of an argument with our kids so they can make better choices in life… Smarter ones that I made…. I believe given all the tools, those kids i saw last night will be amazing. But don’t sell them short by “protecting them” from criticism.

  29. amelia booke
    January 22, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    Just double checked a saved compete recording of the thread. Photo of two young people was posted. Maybe down now…who knows? But posts on the internet are forever. As we all know. Plenty of people recorded that. Look into yourself if you want. Obviously I am not going to repost photos of children here. I did not state anything that was not factually true.

    • SurfCityChick
      February 13, 2015 at 12:00 am

      Detective Booke!!

  30. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    Amelia, isn’t it easy to post accusations when you say you can’t show us the proof? I have pictures that prove President Obama killed a woman. Oh, but I can’t show you the proof. It would cause the woman’s family retaliatory harm.

    • January 22, 2015 at 5:07 pm

      enjoy your visit from the Secret Service Rob.

    • January 22, 2015 at 5:24 pm

      They were there. I saw the pics up on HBCF, and I’ve seen the screen shots. We’re not gonna put them up. Is it appropriate to message them to a few of these skeptics so they’ll shut up? I don’t know.

  31. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Dan, oh great! Ok, so it was really Harry Reid. Oh, I mean Nancy Pelosi! No, I’ll make all you libs happy. It was really Dick Cheney!

    • January 23, 2015 at 8:43 am

      another enlightened reply from a conservative Fox News watcher and low information voter. Tell me Rob, Mike, and the rest of you right wingers….if the kids were brainwashed and their facts weren’t factual…just what facts do you believe? In repealing the plastic bag ban, are you putting any teeth into the no littering enforcement or is that too much an inconvenience for an individual’s “freedom and liberty.”

      • junior
        January 23, 2015 at 2:03 pm

        Is plastic bag littering really that big of a problem in HB – or Irvine or Tustin or even Santa Ana? I say no. Stop trying to control people’s lives liberals – you are building up a tremendous amount of public resentment against your minor and major causes. It’s called “pick your battles.”

  32. Rob
    January 22, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    i spoke with Michael Daly by PM. He was not aware of any pictures. But he said if there had been any, they would have been removed by the forum moderators as soon as they saw them. So perhaps another moderator took them down. I’ll back off this issue as it cannot be proved one way or the other. I was on that thread a lot since it started. I saw no pictures.

  33. Bobbi Ashurst
    January 22, 2015 at 10:15 pm

    I am fascinated! If a young person joins a club at school, does independent research, writes a speech and presents it to adult elected officials then according to you Lee Harris, and those who agree with him, they are fair game to be critiqued be a group of adults who didn’t bother to recognize their school status, their interest in their subject, their ability to think independently, and on and on. They did not sound like brainwashed robots, there were no opposing speeches because there isn’t school club that is passionate about anti-environmentalism, entitlement and disregard for the planet they live on. Kids are off limits. You are all excusing your poor behavior by making the children wrong.
    And to add insult to injury, you are accusing Connie Boardman of manipulating children that I would bet she’s never even met. Some of you seem to think that being voted out requires those that are to wear a red letter and forget that they are still voters and residents with personal opinions and fade off into those beautiful sunsets.
    Fascinating. In a scary, crazy, sad way. SMH & EFA

  34. January 23, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    i did not support the ban, and certainly not the ten cent bag tax. I DO support the right of people to express opposition and I would never presume that these kids were counseled or brainwashed, as seems to be suggested. If my kid felt strongly about an issue and waged to speak to a cc, I would,have coached her to help her be effective.

    I am on hbcf. I am not a tea party republican as someone mentioned. I am a conservative democrats, actually. The Forum is a communication tool. Some people lack communication skills – but please,do t brand the forum for ,the immaturity of some of its posters.

  35. Michael Hoskinson
    January 24, 2015 at 12:21 pm

     As the subject of this piece and an OC Weekly hit job by Gustavo Arellano I was shocked to see it, especially because Mr. Arellano neglected to contact me previous to its printing. The inception of this was the HB City Council meeting last week where the plastic bag ban repeal was up for a vote. A group of children from a local private school spoke at the meeting imploring the CC not to repeal the bag ban, they sounded like practiced and hardcore environmental activists and certainly not school kids. I made the comment that “I was concerned about what they were being taught at that school” and “they seem highly coached to me” I stand by both of those statements and in fact a local watched as three men were coaching the children in the back room previous to the CC meeting. During the last election HB was successful removing two of the council people that were instrumental in the bag ban, they are very bitter about the loss and both were active on social media drumming up this non-story about me and my comments; I can only imagine they have relationships with Mr. Arellano and are instrumental in him writing that hit piece on me. 

    I emailed Mr. Arellano to meet with him and have him write about my side of the original story, his reply “What’s your side of all those images you shared on Facebook?”…clearly he has zero interest in the real story and wants to create a narrative that fits his ideological views. I am an unabashed Conservative and share my views openly. I stand by anything I post and will debate it openly if asked, I don’t hide behind my byline and do my business in the open.

    What’s missing in this story is the fact that I was advocating to protect the children from being used as political pawns to achieve an agenda, clearly the supporters of the bag ban have no boundaries about how they achieve their objectives and the attack on me is an attempt to obfuscate that truth. They are truly shameless.

    So, i’ll wear my new moniker of “One of OC’s Top Haters” proudly, knowing the truth and provenance of it makes it just that more special.

    • Dan Chmielewski
      January 24, 2015 at 10:06 pm

      Gustavo doesn’t exactly adhere to the SPJ Code of Ethics. How is calling kids “boogereaters” protecting them?

    • David
      January 25, 2015 at 9:28 am

      Just took a look at Hoskinson’s Twitter account. I can see why he revels at being labeled one of Orange Counties “top haters”. This is truly a divisive individual. Mike Hoskinson doesn’t bring people together, he tears them apart. But I also detect a man who is highly paranoid with his wacky conspiracy theories concerning council relationships and the OC Weekly. So why didn’t you answer the question about the disgusting/hateful/kooky images posted on your Facebook page? I’ll tell you what, after seeing how firmly entrenched Hoskinson is with Tea Party ideologies I can now fully understand his twisted thinking and values. Mikes the kind of guy that will bitch and whine about high density, and then tear down a historic old home so he can plop two “tall skinny” condo’s in its place. Mike Hoskinson: Bad for the environment, bad for Huntington Beach, BAD FOR THE WORLD.

  36. Lee Harris
    January 24, 2015 at 1:09 pm

    This whole thing was all about using Alinsky’s tactic of redirect/shoot the messenger (#5-“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” ). And who is the messenger? HBCF. And why? Because HBCF was an important component to exposing Joe Shaw’s hypocrisy and contempt for the voters. If Shaw can undermine the opposition and discredit them, then he’ll effectively silence free speech, because ultimately, he doesn’t want his opposition talking to each other.

  37. Chris Epting
    January 24, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    I really did not appreciate the discussion on the HBCF that mocked those teens that spoke at council – not because they were teens – but because they were merely citizens speaking out. During the fire pits war, I remember being asked to speak to a Girl Scouts group about it. They wanted then to go speak and asked my advice. I said, be thoughtful, honest, clear and direct – and have fun.

    They brought down the house.

    Did I coach them? By some definition maybe – but they had an opinion already. It’s not fair to judge motivation. And even if people are coached, it’s still tough to get up there and cut loose. Judge the words and ideas; not what you perceive as intent. We all have a voice. I never could have gotten up there as a teen – and so ill always respect the act if not always the words.

    Sidebar – in terms of respecting public speakers, I’d like to remind joe shaw that the berating, bullying and haranguing of speakers he disagreed with over the years was infamous. As well, burying his nose in his computer, ignoring speakers, leaving the room when it suited him, sneering, taunting, insulting, harrumphing, blocking voters on Facebook that challenged him- the examples he set in dealing with the public was intolerant, narrow minded and flat out unctuous. Just like his statement that the HBCF is a “tea party” group. That is what Joe does – lashes out with extremist accusations to try and demonize those that disagree with him. Same thing he did to me when I said that, even though I favored some sort of ban, that I believed people should be able to vote on it. “Tea partier Tea partier Tea partier!” Even his good friend Vern admitted to me privately how foolish he thought Joe was on that front – always shrieking “tea partier” when challenged.

    For him to criticize others like this is not just laughable, it is offensive.
    Two wrongs do not make a right.

  38. chris epting
    January 27, 2015 at 6:36 am

    And, predictably, soon as my comment was posted here I was blocked/banned from even viewing Mr Shaw’s Twitter feed. And they really wonder why they were so definitively kicked from office.

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