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	<title>Comments on: How The West Was Won&#8230; And Lost</title>
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	<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/</link>
	<description>Challenging Orange County&#039;s right-wing noise machine</description>
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		<title>By: Glenn Dixon</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35343</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35343</guid>
		<description>Until grass-roots organizations are organized independently of political parties or candidates, the power to wield the tool will still rest solely in their hands. The interests they serve can be neither local nor balanced.

Articles like this allow us to focus our attention on those disparities left unaddressed by the conventional political process.

Our collective responses will eventually establish a nexus about which we can begin to organize and direct our energy.

All we need to do is to stay informed and involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until grass-roots organizations are organized independently of political parties or candidates, the power to wield the tool will still rest solely in their hands. The interests they serve can be neither local nor balanced.</p>
<p>Articles like this allow us to focus our attention on those disparities left unaddressed by the conventional political process.</p>
<p>Our collective responses will eventually establish a nexus about which we can begin to organize and direct our energy.</p>
<p>All we need to do is to stay informed and involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Rhinehart</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35340</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rhinehart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35340</guid>
		<description>While I am happy that the long years of hell under the Bush/Cheney administration appears to be ending...all is not well in liberal land.  I believe that Prop 8 would have been defeated, if Obama had landed in California, instead of flying over it in on a vacuum cleaner to collect donations,  and clearly stated his opposistion to Prop 8 over and over again.  He elected not to do this for fear of ruining his chances for being elected President.  Pragmatic?  Oh yes!   Helpful?  Well, not to the gay community!  Typical of liberal politicians?  Sadly, yes.

This ol&#039; school Gay Male Liberal is tired of it.  Tired of being used for my money and vote, while being patted on the back and told to &quot;just be cool...your turn is coming.&quot;   It hasn&#039;t and it won&#039;t with the Democratic Party.  

So now it&#039;s time to do a little self-emancipation.  It&#039;s time to throw off empty promises and take control of my own life.  I&#039;ve been a Democrat since 1968, when I proudly supported Eugene McCarthy for President.  As of today, I leave the Democratic Party and become a Libertarian.  And in doing so, I encourage other LGBT voters to do the same.   The Democratic Party has given us glittering platitudes and empty promises of true equality.  

Is full and unambiguous support for same-sex marriage in the 2008 Democratic Platform?  That would be a No.  Is full and unambiguous support for same-sex marriage in the Libertarian Platform?  Yes!

To those who say the Libertarian Party is too small to have any impact and that the LGBT community will loose what semblance of voice we have in the body politic. I encourage you to think of this.  It is said that the LGBT community makes up between 4% to 6% of the California vote.  Think about that vote combined with the third largest Independent party in California and the US.  

The LGBT community has the opportunity to make a difference...not just be used year after year.  We have an opportunity to really be heard...not just be an easy bank account used for the quick political cash.  It&#039;s beyond time for the LGBT community to emancipate itself from the Democratic Party and to become respected as Libertarians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am happy that the long years of hell under the Bush/Cheney administration appears to be ending&#8230;all is not well in liberal land.  I believe that Prop 8 would have been defeated, if Obama had landed in California, instead of flying over it in on a vacuum cleaner to collect donations,  and clearly stated his opposistion to Prop 8 over and over again.  He elected not to do this for fear of ruining his chances for being elected President.  Pragmatic?  Oh yes!   Helpful?  Well, not to the gay community!  Typical of liberal politicians?  Sadly, yes.</p>
<p>This ol&#8217; school Gay Male Liberal is tired of it.  Tired of being used for my money and vote, while being patted on the back and told to &#8220;just be cool&#8230;your turn is coming.&#8221;   It hasn&#8217;t and it won&#8217;t with the Democratic Party.  </p>
<p>So now it&#8217;s time to do a little self-emancipation.  It&#8217;s time to throw off empty promises and take control of my own life.  I&#8217;ve been a Democrat since 1968, when I proudly supported Eugene McCarthy for President.  As of today, I leave the Democratic Party and become a Libertarian.  And in doing so, I encourage other LGBT voters to do the same.   The Democratic Party has given us glittering platitudes and empty promises of true equality.  </p>
<p>Is full and unambiguous support for same-sex marriage in the 2008 Democratic Platform?  That would be a No.  Is full and unambiguous support for same-sex marriage in the Libertarian Platform?  Yes!</p>
<p>To those who say the Libertarian Party is too small to have any impact and that the LGBT community will loose what semblance of voice we have in the body politic. I encourage you to think of this.  It is said that the LGBT community makes up between 4% to 6% of the California vote.  Think about that vote combined with the third largest Independent party in California and the US.  </p>
<p>The LGBT community has the opportunity to make a difference&#8230;not just be used year after year.  We have an opportunity to really be heard&#8230;not just be an easy bank account used for the quick political cash.  It&#8217;s beyond time for the LGBT community to emancipate itself from the Democratic Party and to become respected as Libertarians.</p>
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		<title>By: just...asking?</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35338</link>
		<dc:creator>just...asking?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35338</guid>
		<description>In all the big news from the National and local headline races, overlooked a small development in Orange County politics.

The tiny little town of La Palma has shifted to a Democratic majority!  Solidly Reep since the 1980 Regean Revolution they are now 3-2 Dem&#039;s.
Believe this is the first in OC other than the big boys of Santa Ana and Irvine who have stayed blue for a while.

Is this a small beginning?  Just...asking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all the big news from the National and local headline races, overlooked a small development in Orange County politics.</p>
<p>The tiny little town of La Palma has shifted to a Democratic majority!  Solidly Reep since the 1980 Regean Revolution they are now 3-2 Dem&#8217;s.<br />
Believe this is the first in OC other than the big boys of Santa Ana and Irvine who have stayed blue for a while.</p>
<p>Is this a small beginning?  Just&#8230;asking?</p>
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		<title>By: Heather Pritchard</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35313</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather Pritchard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35313</guid>
		<description>So now it&#039;s time to take advantage of all those motivated Obama volunteers to turn that energy towards turning Orange County blue.  We can most certainly continue the rallying cry, &quot;YES WE CAN&quot; and should focus our efforts on places that went to Obama such as Aliso Viejo!  Gary got 47% of the vote there and that was huge for us.

We need to look at our candidates that ran this year and see what we can do to help them run in the smaller races in their city and move the County bit by bit (Aliso Viejo also voted for Obama and NO on 4 and 8).

I personally think it has to do with the presence of Soka University.  Take advantage of every little thing we can!

Yes we can!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So now it&#8217;s time to take advantage of all those motivated Obama volunteers to turn that energy towards turning Orange County blue.  We can most certainly continue the rallying cry, &#8220;YES WE CAN&#8221; and should focus our efforts on places that went to Obama such as Aliso Viejo!  Gary got 47% of the vote there and that was huge for us.</p>
<p>We need to look at our candidates that ran this year and see what we can do to help them run in the smaller races in their city and move the County bit by bit (Aliso Viejo also voted for Obama and NO on 4 and 8).</p>
<p>I personally think it has to do with the presence of Soka University.  Take advantage of every little thing we can!</p>
<p>Yes we can!</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35241</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35241</guid>
		<description>The LDS Church&#039;s campaign to pass Proposition 8 was its most vigorous since the 1970s, when it helped defeat the Equal Rights Amendment and Californians were fooled and bought into the lies. This from a church who has its own historical tradition of non-traditional marriage and is un-American (any organization fighting against civil liberties against specific groups- blacks, women and gays, cannot be American and certainly is not Christian). 

For example, regardless of Proposition 8&#039;s outcome, our community will still lobby public schools to teach about healthy relationships (we pay taxes and have a say), we will press for marital inclusion in our religious communities. And for those of us in loving, committed relationships, we are married in God&#039;s eyes and our family&#039;s eyes. And yes, we want the same right as an 18 year old California teenager- the right to marry the one we love. 

Let&#039;s tell Mormons where to go!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The LDS Church&#8217;s campaign to pass Proposition 8 was its most vigorous since the 1970s, when it helped defeat the Equal Rights Amendment and Californians were fooled and bought into the lies. This from a church who has its own historical tradition of non-traditional marriage and is un-American (any organization fighting against civil liberties against specific groups- blacks, women and gays, cannot be American and certainly is not Christian). </p>
<p>For example, regardless of Proposition 8&#8217;s outcome, our community will still lobby public schools to teach about healthy relationships (we pay taxes and have a say), we will press for marital inclusion in our religious communities. And for those of us in loving, committed relationships, we are married in God&#8217;s eyes and our family&#8217;s eyes. And yes, we want the same right as an 18 year old California teenager- the right to marry the one we love. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s tell Mormons where to go!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Prevatt</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35229</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Prevatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 04:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35229</guid>
		<description>The failure of the No on 8 campaign to effectively cuntr the Yes on 8 lies cannot be laid at the feet of the Obama campaign, or the call for volunteers to help in battle ground states. The Yes on 2 and the No on 4 campaigns should have been hit hard as well by the same voter turnout and lack of coordinated ground campaigns. But they weren&#039;t. 

The No on 8 leadership, or lack there of, failed to respond to the negative attacks and lies with a consistent and clear message. They failed to anticipate and counter the implication by the Yes folks that Barack Obama and Joe Biden opposed Proposition 8. they failed to anticipate how the Yes campaign would exploit the comments of Mayor Newsom after the Supreme Court overturned the ban on same-gender marriage. The No on 8 campaign failed to plan for what to do if they were able to raise more than the initial $20 million they hoped to raise. What we were left with was the failure to plan upfront for what they should have anticipated would be thrown at them. 

Our efforts were reduced to dueling rallies with the Yes campaign, while the Yes folks were miseading voters into believing that Marriage Equality was an education issue , rather than a civil rights issue.

The result of that failure was Prop 22 all over again. Strangey, the same groups responsible for loosing the fight against Prop 22, ae the same groups responsible for our failure to defeat Prop 8. Barack Obama&#039;s presidential campaign, and the volunteers that helped, are not at fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The failure of the No on 8 campaign to effectively cuntr the Yes on 8 lies cannot be laid at the feet of the Obama campaign, or the call for volunteers to help in battle ground states. The Yes on 2 and the No on 4 campaigns should have been hit hard as well by the same voter turnout and lack of coordinated ground campaigns. But they weren&#8217;t. </p>
<p>The No on 8 leadership, or lack there of, failed to respond to the negative attacks and lies with a consistent and clear message. They failed to anticipate and counter the implication by the Yes folks that Barack Obama and Joe Biden opposed Proposition 8. they failed to anticipate how the Yes campaign would exploit the comments of Mayor Newsom after the Supreme Court overturned the ban on same-gender marriage. The No on 8 campaign failed to plan for what to do if they were able to raise more than the initial $20 million they hoped to raise. What we were left with was the failure to plan upfront for what they should have anticipated would be thrown at them. </p>
<p>Our efforts were reduced to dueling rallies with the Yes campaign, while the Yes folks were miseading voters into believing that Marriage Equality was an education issue , rather than a civil rights issue.</p>
<p>The result of that failure was Prop 22 all over again. Strangey, the same groups responsible for loosing the fight against Prop 22, ae the same groups responsible for our failure to defeat Prop 8. Barack Obama&#8217;s presidential campaign, and the volunteers that helped, are not at fault.</p>
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		<title>By: Rep Voter</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35226</link>
		<dc:creator>Rep Voter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35226</guid>
		<description>Andrew,

You spent so much time in Nevada and asked so many people to go to Nevada, that I don&#039;t think you are in a position to talk on this.

I think you might&#039;ve just been a little too confident about the state of affairs in your home state.

CA voters aren&#039;t as liberal as you might think. Bush has been a failure as a Republican and McCain wasn&#039;t any better. A lot of conservatives voted for Obama to teach the Reps a lesson.

Also, turning out voters for a Obama was a double-edged sword. Latinos and blacks both supported Prop 8 (blacks overwhelmingly so). 

Obama is a one-trick pony and once his honeymoon period is over, you&#039;ll find that on the issues, the state isn&#039;t as liberal as you would like to think it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,</p>
<p>You spent so much time in Nevada and asked so many people to go to Nevada, that I don&#8217;t think you are in a position to talk on this.</p>
<p>I think you might&#8217;ve just been a little too confident about the state of affairs in your home state.</p>
<p>CA voters aren&#8217;t as liberal as you might think. Bush has been a failure as a Republican and McCain wasn&#8217;t any better. A lot of conservatives voted for Obama to teach the Reps a lesson.</p>
<p>Also, turning out voters for a Obama was a double-edged sword. Latinos and blacks both supported Prop 8 (blacks overwhelmingly so). </p>
<p>Obama is a one-trick pony and once his honeymoon period is over, you&#8217;ll find that on the issues, the state isn&#8217;t as liberal as you would like to think it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35218</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35218</guid>
		<description>Andrew,
Another point I missed making was that the opportunity now exists to benefit from the Viet Voter revolt against Tran and Janet Nguyen. 

The infighting between those two camps benefitted Dems dramatically in this election and should be seen as the opportunity it is which is to carry a Democratic Message to Little Saigon and reap the benefits from a newly awakend community who will turn away from Janet Nguyen and Van Tran style candidates in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,<br />
Another point I missed making was that the opportunity now exists to benefit from the Viet Voter revolt against Tran and Janet Nguyen. </p>
<p>The infighting between those two camps benefitted Dems dramatically in this election and should be seen as the opportunity it is which is to carry a Democratic Message to Little Saigon and reap the benefits from a newly awakend community who will turn away from Janet Nguyen and Van Tran style candidates in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Kephart</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2008/11/06/how-the-west-was-won-and-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-35217</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Kephart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/?p=4622#comment-35217</guid>
		<description>Exactly my thoughts, RD. Everyone was so caught up in the presidential race and volunteering for Obama that there was barely anyone left here to volunteer for local races.
The problem in 2010 will be that &quot;we must get more Dems in Congress to support Obama, so we don&#039;t have time for the local races.&quot; And then in 2012 it will be &quot;we must get Obama re-elected so we don&#039;t have time for the local races&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly my thoughts, RD. Everyone was so caught up in the presidential race and volunteering for Obama that there was barely anyone left here to volunteer for local races.<br />
The problem in 2010 will be that &#8220;we must get more Dems in Congress to support Obama, so we don&#8217;t have time for the local races.&#8221; And then in 2012 it will be &#8220;we must get Obama re-elected so we don&#8217;t have time for the local races&#8221;.</p>
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