Yes on 8 Group is Guarding Signs in Irvine

I was on my way to pick up my daughter from soccer practice and noticed and string of about eight “Yes on Eight” signs on both sides of Culver Drive at the corner of Bryan Ave in Irvine (just north of the 5 freeway). 

What was unusual, was that two people on either side of the street, sitting in a lawn chair.  Of course, I had to pull over and chat one of them up.  A woman, mid-40′s, told me they were there to make sure the signs weren’t vandalized.  There is apparently a gay/lesbian club at Woodbridge High School (or so she says), that has a campaign to damage the Yes on 8 signs.  I told her I respected her involvement in the process but that I was voting No on 8.

Sensing she might be able to change my mind, she told me, “If we don’t pass 8, churches will lose their tax-exempt status if they refuse to marry gays and lesbians.  It’s already happened.” 

I politely told her she was wrong and asked for the name of the church affected, which she couldn’t produce. She also said doctors would be sued for refusing to provide artificial insemination to lesbians.  Now where that is in the Prop 8 legislation, I have no idea.

And as I was preparing to get back on the road, a car pulled up.  A teen boy, about 15 or 16, popped out and quickly destroyed two signs.  The woman, forgetting me, shouted at him and called on her partner across the street for help.  I’m sure she got the car’s license plate, so to echo Gila’s remarks, don’t destory signs, make a contribution or get some fre No on 8 signs and put them up.  Better still, get the vote out. 

I’ve printed out the language in the documentation and plan to drop it off to her this afternoon.  But if the Yes on 8 crowd has to post guards to protect signs, it tells me their position is in trouble.

  32 comments for “Yes on 8 Group is Guarding Signs in Irvine

  1. Homewrecker
    October 22, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Dan, they were out there on Sat morning at Culver and Bryan holding a rally. I couldn’t help but flip one lady the bird! I have been incensed at seeing the signs in my tract, in my neighborhood park. Emotionally, it really feels like a violation, telling me that I am less than others when I turn into my neighborhood after a long day at work. Technically, what these people are doing is attempting to strip people like me of my constitutional right to equal protection under the law. I have not personally destroyed any signs but I am certainly not sorry when they disappear from my view. Luckily for me, the Santa Ana winds took care of the first batch.
    Yes on 8 = Yes on Hate

  2. The Lovable Curmudgeon
    October 22, 2008 at 10:53 am

    Folks, if the signs are on PUBLIC PROPERTY (a school, a park, median strip, utility pole, etc.), call the appropriate city/county public works department and INSIST that the signs be removed. They will send a crew out to take down all signs on public property. Often, the offending campaigns will be billed for removal.

  3. Jubal
    October 22, 2008 at 11:10 am

    But if the Yes on 8 crowd has to post guards to protect signs, it tells me their position is in trouble.

    Dan, thanks for the post, but I disagree with your concluding remark.

    If Yes on 8 volunteers have to guard signs, it means anti-Prop. 8 activists are so out of control they’re resorting to vandalism.

  4. October 22, 2008 at 11:25 am

    I appreciate the honesty in your post, and showing my side (the yes on 8 side) being the
    victims of your sides hate. i’ve blogged about it.

  5. Dan Chmielewski
    October 22, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Homewrecker — had no idea that you’re practically a neighbor (I’m up near Meadowood Park).

    LC — Irvine won’t remove them due to political free speech laws. I will note that from Bryan Ave north to Irvine, every candidate’s political sign is uprooted. This includes signs for Choi, Shea, Kang and Gallinger, plus the really poathetic ones where Christina promotes herself as “Woman of the Year” (did you expect Chuck DeVore to nominate anyone other than a Republican?).

    Matt – thanks for the comment; I guess this is how we see the world differently.

    I’m still hoping to get a Pedroza for City Council sign to drop off at the Massage Parlor on Main Street near my SA office so they can put it in the window. Its probably the only way Art will have a happy ending this election season.

  6. Dan Chmielewski
    October 22, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Stacy — I read your blog and you are being unfair to me about doing nothing. I actually alerted the woman that her signs were being vandalized and they were pretty much ripped out in a manner of seconds. Perhaps you’d like me to run the oung man over with my car?

    Instead of addressing the notion of signs, perhaps you could blog about the misinformation the woman was using to make her points on Prop 8. Because everything she told me is not true.

    Care to produce the identity of the church who lost their tax exempt status for refusing to marry a same-sex couple? That should be an easy one for you.

  7. October 22, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Dan,

    Based on what your article says, you did nothing. Read what you wrote, you said nothing
    about alerting the woman.

    And of course not, why would I advocate violence towards your side, that’s your
    sides tactic, not mine.

    As for what the woman told you, I can’t comment on that because I wasn’t there
    but I did comment on what you wrote and unless you plan on rewriting your article
    to show you actually did do something, to stop those teens, then my piece is
    remaining the way it is.

    But thanks for proving my point.

  8. Dan Chmielewski
    October 22, 2008 at 11:51 am

    Well, I did say in my comment I alerted her and I did. But it was as I was pulling out to merge into traffic. I’m not going to add a detail to my original post that I have already referenced in the comments. Should I have run the kid over in my car? The boy isn’t even old enough to vote.

    And to call us out as haters is lame. The woman I talked with made claims without being able to back up any of it with facts.

  9. The Lovable Curmudgeon
    October 22, 2008 at 11:52 am

    it makes no sense to allow political signs on land that is taxpayer owned.
    if i planted No on 8 signs across the front of University HS, Irvine City Hall, the police station, and every fire station, would they stay there?
    it’s CRAZY to have people watching signs that are placed illegally in the first place.

    i’m tired of sign blight.

  10. October 22, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Yes, and I did say you said to not destroys signs. I gave you credit for that.

    So why don’t you write a blog post outlining how that woman made these claims and
    document it on your blog.

    That wasn’t the point of my blog post. The point of my post was to show how
    your side is vandalizing Yes on 8 signs and showing their hate towards supporters
    of yes on 8.

    You helped me prove my point. I think that’s probably what annoys you huh :)

    In fact, just so you know, if you read my blog you will not find me giving the same
    talking points as that woman. In fact, this week I gave an interview to the USC student
    writing about this for his paper and I didn’t quote the Yes on 8 talking points, because
    to me those aren’t the issue.

    The issue is that 4 liberal judges overturned the will of the people. The vote yes on 8
    campaign is simply reinstating what the will of over 61% of Californians voted in in the year
    2008 when prop 22 was passed.

    The way the no on 8 campaign is spinning this is about equality – which is totally
    false. It has nothing to do with equality, but everything to do with making sure
    rogue judges stop pressing their will on over 4 million of us who voted that marriage
    is defined as one man and one woman the way God created it to be.

  11. October 22, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Dan, Stacy obviously isn’t too interested in accuracy. She calls LibOC “a no on 8 blog.” She says that the Democratic candidate for President wants to ban guns. She says that a reference to “the other 50 states” has to do with “51 states of Islam.”

    So it’s no particular surprise that she refuses to portray your actions accurately.

    She sounds like a lonely, uptight person who needs to get out more.

  12. Homewrecker
    October 22, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Dan, I have to commend you. You are a better person than me. I wouldn’t have said anything to her. She is sitting there guarding her signs (does she not have gainful employment?) when she could be organizing a food drive for the poor or helping a child learn to read. I just can’t sympathize with people who would codify discrimination into our state Constitution. It is un-American. And Stacy, there is something really creepy about people like you who seem to spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about what other people do with their lives and in their bedrooms, because I sure as hell know you don’t give a damn about the concept of equal protection under the law.

    A Vote for 8 is a Vote for Hate

  13. Dan Chmielewski
    October 22, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Stacy –
    Did you expect me to stop them from vandalizing the signs? I was pulling into traffic, saw what was happening and signaled to the woman who was in a better position to do something about than I. If that’s not enough for you, well, tough toenails.

    I want to point out some errors to your statement:
    Prop 22 was passed in 2000, during a low turnout primary election.

    The California Supreme Court is a conservative court; not a liberal one. Six of the 7 justices are Republicans.

    The State Legislature has twice passed Gay Marriage laws only to have them vetoed by the Governor who felt the courts needed to decide it.

    It seems you as as challenged on basic facts as your colleague who was protecting her signs.

  14. October 22, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    Some Evangelicals are starting to recommend a NO VOTE on Proposition 8.

  15. Major Chaos
    October 22, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Democracy is all about individual freedoms. You don’t have to agree with Yes on 8 supporters, but to deny them their right to rally their cause is bigotry at its best. Don’t do to them what you are accusing them of doing. Show some maturity.

  16. Major Chaos
    October 22, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Forgot to mention The Lovable Curmudgeon you are incorrect about the signs being posted illegally. Removing them, now that’s clearly illegal. In fact even in associations it is protected see California civil code: 1353.6. (a).

    If you want to make a difference get actively involved, not try tearing down signs like a juvenile.

  17. October 22, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    LOL, you got me excited there for a moment, Robert, but this is not so much pro-civil-rights evangelicals as simple ANTI-MORMON evangelical. Should we accept them as allies on the “enemy of my enemy” rule? Thoughts?

    From that link:

    Be very careful about voting on CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 8. We can win a battle and lose the war.

    The “yes on 8″ movement is being funded almost entirely by the Mormon Church. Money is coming from outside California by the millions.

    This is an attempt by the Mormons to win over evangelicals and other Christians. We may feel we have common ground on this issue.

    But at what cost?

    You wouldn’t advise your children to take candy from a stranger.

    Don’t accept help from a group with a hidden agenda: To legitimize beliefs that we believe are outside of Christianity.

    Please don’t take this as an attack on individual Mormons, or their rights to hold Mormon beliefs, but on the Church’s actions.

    REJECT assistance from the LDS Mormon Church on matters of religious law and interpretation. It’s OK to work with another religion to feed and clothe the hungry. It’s not OK to accept religious law–even if you may agree with it–from a religion that proselytizes ideas that are outside of our Holy Scriptures.

    VOTE NO ON 8. MAKE THEIR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS GO TO WASTE. Discourage them from performing deceptive outreach programs in the future.

    Jesus’ primary message, that he repeats over and over, is to uplift the weak, feed the hungry, clothe the needy. Most of their money should be going, as ours does, to feed and clothe the needy.

    We can address same sex marriage later, on our own terms. The future of Christianity in the United States is more important.

    Please vote NO on CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 8. DON’T ACCEPT “CANDY” FROM “STRANGERS”

    When they come for YOU, who will be left to speak out?

    Yours in Christ,
    REVEREND Joe Baytzim
    Church of Eliyahu Ha-Navi, Orange, California

  18. Major Chaos
    October 22, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    Thanks Reverend Joe, now that I know how you preach I can cross your church off my list of places I want to worship. Preach love and tolerance…not bigotry.

  19. demmother
    October 22, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Apart from crazy signs – something else bothers me -

    “The issue is that 4 liberal judges overturned the will of the people.”

    Dan already commented on the make up of the CA Supreme Court.

    I believe the Judicial Branch performed perfectly. I learned in my civics classes (conservative Placentia USD) that the principles that the majority can rule, but there are times the judiciary steps in to protect the rights of the minority.

  20. Dan Chmielewski
    October 22, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Chaos, as a former HOA president, you can only place signs on your property, but not the common area. Common area sgns may be disposed of by the association no matter what the First Amendment says

  21. Homewrecker
    October 22, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Well, denmother, that would mean that Stacy is either an ignoramus or a liar. But what Stacy fails to see is that there is nothing inherently “liberal” or “conservative” about equal protection under the law, just the way it is executed. Having said that, if my partner and I could be afforded all the rights and responsibilities of a married couple as domestic partners, I would personally not care whether it was one or the other. But this is not the case. They are deliberately mingling the legal concept of marriage with the religious; and so I say, the State can repackage it and call it something else, open to all consenting adults, and leave “marriage” to the church.

    What really gets to me is the Pro-8 campaign’s willingness to reinstate a concept of government-sanctioned marriage, that they see as theirs and theirs alone, at the expense of my status in society as a citizen of this state. I am a homeowner, and I work and pay taxes just like they do and therefore I am entitled to the same rights as they are, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

  22. October 22, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    Dan – you are right about the year 2000 being the year, I made a typo – which of course you should understand given the numbers of them in your very post and comments here :)

  23. The Lovable Curmudgeon
    October 22, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    Perhaps a reading comprehension course is in order, Major Chaos.
    Nowhere did I suggest that any individual tear down signs for any campaign.
    But when signs are placed illegally on a public right of way, an AUTHORIZED agent of the landowner (in this case a city or school or utility) clearly has the right to remove them.
    Just as I can remove a sign that was placed on my property without prior permission.

  24. Dan Chmielewski
    October 22, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    The typo is understandable; your perception that liberal judges changed the rules is not.

    The California education secretary has refuted your side’s claim that gay marriage will be taught in schools.

    Finally, can you please tel me which church lost its tax-exempt status for denying a same-sex marriage. These are Pro-Prop 8 talking points your side swears n without offering proof. Bearers of false witness perhaps….

  25. Jason & John in Northpark Square/Irvine
    October 22, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    We live in Northpark Square just across from Beckman High. We were married on June 17 at the Old Santa Ana Courthouse after 17 years in a committed relationship. We are a same-sex married couple in Orange County, paying our taxes, working hard in the local economy, and feeling very sad and hurt by people who want to eliminate our civil rights. There are children living on our block that don’t appear to be negatively affected by our marriage.

    Some people argue that our marriage threatens heterosexual marriages. How so? We thought OC would respect libertarian values and stay out of bedroom politics. I guess that’s only a convenient argument when it promotes the Religious Right Elitist agenda. Please vote No on Prop 8 and do not allow discrimination to be enshrined in our state constitution. Thank you.

  26. Family Guy
    October 23, 2008 at 9:13 am

    Up here in Sacramento the Yes on 8 signs are being destroyed and vandalized all over the place. I guess it just goes to show what a bunch of intolerant bigots and haters the gays are.

  27. Brett
    October 23, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Dan, or anyone for that matter, where can we acquire the free No on 8 Signs??

    Thanks!

  28. Dan Chmielewski
    October 23, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Jason & John — we’re practically neighbors. Thanks for reading.

    Brett —
    in Irvine, on Campus Drive across the street from UCI, is a small shopping center (there’s a brewery and an office building there). There’s a Democratic Party store/office there where you can buy cheap Obama bumper stickers and pick up free No on Prop 8 signs.

  29. duplojohn
    October 23, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Where I live in North OC, the YES ON 8 proponents are pretty brutal.

    In a weird sorta way I’m glad to see these guys get active based on belief, instead of the dumb ass blind support for “Bush-Cheney” philosophy of the past.

    Unfortunately, Republicans in general, still tend to base thier choices on clergy and uninformaed zeolots.

    Prop 8 is a great example of this.

    What happened to America and the Bill of Rights?

    That can’t trump the bible. But it definately trumps the Koran???????

  30. OCGator
    October 24, 2008 at 2:21 am

    More BS from the Left on PROP 8 Don’t forget the name calling.

    Vote YES on PROP 8

  31. Redbear
    October 24, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    OCGator, you need to take a look at what’s going on in your own party before slamming “the Left” as the big bad bugaboos of the world. It’s your right to believe that gay marriage is a bad thing, and your right to vote that way. It’s our right to disagree with you, and vote how we believe.

    Voting in favor of Prop 8 is a bad thing for three reasons:

    1) It allows out-of-state interests (the Mormon Church, based in Utah) to dictate how California runs its business.

    2) It writes hatred and discrimination into the Calfiornia Constitution.

    3) It gives you psoriasis.

    (Okay, maybe the third’s a stretch.)

    I’m getting married next weekend to my husband-to-be, and the funny thing is, it hasn’t affected any of my straight co-workers’ marriages one bit. Nor have any of the other 11,000+ gay marriages that have occurred since June of this year in California. If your relationship is unstable enough to be affected by someone else’s marriage (gay, straight, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, whatever), you’ve got bigger issues than that other couple’s marriage.

  32. El Dav
    November 5, 2008 at 9:39 am

    My heart is truly broken by the Yes on 8 win. I don’t understand if the religious right truly understands that they have now legislated DISCRIMINATION into our beloved constitution, or if they do understand but don’t care. Thousands of gay couples have been married for months now and they haven’t hurt anyone. Why couldn’t there be room for traditional and non-traditional marriage here? The only time that I saw children being dragged into any of this was by the Yes on 8 people (waving signs or even at the Hyatt party in Irvine at midnight.) The CA Supreme Court (which is majority Republican, not activist) interpreted our constitution in the way it was meant to be written, with equality for all. I am so sad that a freedom has actually been taken away from our fellow citizens today. This will be a long struggle, because fighting against hatred always is, but I trust that the good people of California will come to understand the steps backward and the shame that has been put on our Constitution today.

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