Here’s Where the Anger Comes From

During the Obama/Pastor flag, we ran a cartoon show of Fox News viewer asking “where does the anger come from?” A new documentary getting its LA debut next week chronicles the Civil Rights battles in St. Augustine, Florida.

Here’s where you can see it:

http://www.laemmle.com/viewtheatre.php?date=04252008&thid=10

Or go to http://dnwa.info/LA for details.  The trailer is below.

[youtube]s9lh4dGMHjo[/youtube]

  51 comments for “Here’s Where the Anger Comes From

  1. Bob
    April 18, 2008 at 9:58 am

    We’ve beaten the Wright thing to death.

    Let’s talk about committed unrepentant psychotic communist terrorists.

    I’ve had the pleasure of debating with good hearted and from what I discern patriotic political activists on this blog. If by chance Bill Ayers was a professor at UCI and Bernadine Dohrn worked in a law firm in Santa Ana. Not a single person here would accept an invitation from them to hold a fundraiser for you in their home.

    No one on the OC liberal would be friends with his despicable couple any more bloggers at Red County would hang out with Timothy McVey or his brother. Some actions and beliefs are beyond anything that’s acceptable for decent people (like yourselves) to have any personal association with.

    Obama is either a wimp and cannot stand up to these people or is indifferent to their vile actions and beliefs – both disqualify him for being our President.

  2. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Ayers paid his debt to society and is free to live his life. But there you go again Bob putting Ayers on the same level as McVey and assuming that our values must be like yours because we OBVIOUSLY would do what you did.

    There are people in my community with whom I strongly disagree but I would never think of shunning them. The idea that because Obama was cordial to this man does in no way indicate that he condone his actions and his words. The connection is such a tenuous one it’s, yes, that word again, absurd.

  3. April 18, 2008 at 10:53 am

    But there you go again Bob putting Ayers on the same level as McVey…

    Ayers can’t match McVeigh’s body count because Ayers got sent to prison. Ayers is unrepentant and said he’s regret is he didn’t set off more bombs, I’d say that puts him right there with McVeigh.

  4. Dan Chmielewski
    April 18, 2008 at 11:05 am

    And none of this has anything to do with the film. And honestly, you’re going to disqualify Obama for that? Its very trivial. Go after Obama because of his economic proposals, his position on the war, or his healthcare plan. Its like the right wingers have decided to destry this guy via a million mosquito bites which is funny when you consider the heavy baggage McCain brings to the race

  5. April 18, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Hold on. Obama keeps talking about how his judgment is one of his qualifications to be President — and yet it’s out of line for anyone to ask questions that go to his judgment?

  6. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 11:30 am

    I don’t think it says anything about his judgement. I think the best point Obama made in the debate is the ridiculous process by the press to hold him accountable for what others have said and done. His answer alone shows me what good judgement he has.

    George, but this is an example of what I’m talking about.
    This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who’s a professor of English
    in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official
    endorsement from. He’s not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a
    regular basis. And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn’t make much sense, George.

    The fact is that I’m also friendly with Tom Coburn, one of the most
    conservative Republicans in the United States Senate, who, during his
    campaign, once said that it might be appropriate to apply the death
    penalty to those who carried out abortions.

    Do I need to apologize for Mr. Coburn’s statements? Because I
    certainly don’t agree with those, either.

    So this kind of game in which anybody who I know, regardless of how
    flimsy the relationship is, that somehow their ideas could be attributed
    to me, I think the American people are smarter than that. They’re not
    going to suggest somehow that that is reflective of my views, because it
    obviously isn’t.

  7. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 11:34 am

    Ayers can’t match McVeigh’s body count because Ayers got sent to prison. Ayers is unrepentant and said he’s regret is he didn’t set off more bombs, I’d say that puts him right there with McVeigh.

    Of course you would. But you neglect the fact that since getting out of prison he has not done anything illegal and he has not “set off more bombs”. Minor detail.

  8. April 18, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    I don’t think it says anything about his judgement.

    That’s your opinion, Heather. Others obviously feel differently.

    But this outrage in the Left Blogosphere that the questions shouldn’t even be asked speaks volumes.

  9. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Jubal – maybe if Republican candidates were given the same amount of scrutiny over who they associate with I would have less problem with the questions. And it’s not one question though, it dominates the conversation to the point where the issues suffer and it becomes something other than just asking a question.

  10. Dan Chmielewski
    April 18, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Oh Matt, aren’y you the one who scolded me when the whole McCain/lobbyist story broke in the NY Times? We weren’t even allowed to joke that perhaps McCain might have been having an affair with a much younger woman.

    John McCain’s campaign is stacked with lobbyists despite Mr. Straight Talk’s claim of being a maverick. If you want to play a game of gotcha, you will have to do so from both sides of the court.

  11. April 18, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Dan:

    We’re going to have to change your last name to Change-the-subject-ski.

    The two aren’t remotely the same. My objection was to The Grey Lady herself publishing totally unsubstantiated speculation that McCain was having an affair.

    On the other hand, it is not a matter of speculation that Obama served on the Woods Fund Board with Ayers.

  12. April 18, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    If Charles Gibson had held up a tabloid and asked, “Sen. Obama, is it true you have a gay lover?” then that would be cause for denouncing Gibson.

  13. Bob
    April 18, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    Heather –

    No no no, I refuse to believe you would associate with Aryers and Dohrn, accept political contributions, political help, break bread in their home and socialize with them.

    Only two things that separate McVay from Aryers; body count and the number of bombs that were detonated. They had the exact same MO. Both men were completely remorseless, unrepentant and stated that they wished that they could have done more to create terror among Americans to foment revolution.

    We all have friends with odd or extreme political positions and we tolerate them. There are notorious people on “the right” who are persona non grata, who take evil actions and hold vile beliefs. They are to be shunned. Is there anyone on the left who’s actions are more evil and political views more vile them Aryers and Dohrn?

    You simply have no idea what Aryers and Dohrn did, what they were attempting to accomplish, their beliefs and how unrepentant (proud) of their evil actions. If you knew I am certain you would avoid these people. I think deep down you don’t want our country destroyed.

  14. Dan Chmielewski
    April 18, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    **That’s your opinion, MATT. Others obviously feel differently.** (thanks, I’ll start using this a lot more on your blog)

    Oh, that Woods Fund Board, now there’s a radical group:

    Laura S. Washington, Board Chair*
    Ida B. Wells-Barnett University Professor and Fellow of the DePaul Humanities Center
    Woods Fund of Chicago is a grantmaking foundation whose goal is to increase opportunities for less advantaged people and communities in the metropolitan area, including the opportunity to shape decisions affecting them. The foundation works primarily as a funding partner with nonprofit organizations. Woods supports nonprofits in their important roles of engaging people in civic life, addressing the causes of poverty and other challenges facing the region, promoting more effective public policies, reducing racism and other barriers to equal opportunity, and building a sense of community and common ground.

    Jesus G. Garcia, Vice Chair*
    Executive Director, Little Village Community Development Corporation

    William C. Ayers
    Distinguished Professor of Education, University of Illinois at Chicago

    Lee Bey
    Director of Media and Governmental Affairs, Skidmore, Owings, & Merrill LLP

    Doris Salomon Chagin
    Category Manager – Ethnic Markets, BP Products North America

    Beth E. Richie
    Professor and Head of the Department of African American Studies, University of Illinois at Chicago

    Patrick M. Sheahan
    Executive Director, Public Affairs, UBS Investment Bank

    Charles N. Wheatley
    President, Sahara Enterprises, Inc.

    Lucia Woods Lindley
    Board Member Emeritus

  15. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Jubal – I love how you just skirted right over Dan’s very astute observation about Mr. straighttalk and his penchant for hiring lobbyists. Oh and he broke campaign laws as well. Sometimes it’s fun to change the subject when it’s true.

  16. Bob
    April 18, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Heather –

    It is considered as America’s most grizzly multiple murders and the most horrific crime scene. Here’s who Obama chats with in their home over drinks – while they hold a fundraiser for him.

    http://www.amazon.com/Outlaws-America-Underground-Politics-Solidarity/dp/1904859410/ (Berger):
    Page 123: … It got worse as things got underway. Raising three fingers to signify the fork used as a murder weapon by the Manson “family,” speaker Dohrn praised the recent murders in Los Angeles. …

    http://www.amazon.com/DESTRUCTIVE-GENERATION-Second-Thoughts-About/dp/0684826410/ (Horowitz):
    Page 96: … “First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!” She held up three fingers in a Manson “fork salute.” …

    http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Close-Sun-Times-Weatherman/dp/1583227717/ (Wilkerson):
    Page 328: “… it; first they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the room with them, then they even shoved a fork into pig Tate’s stomach. Wild! ”

    This isn’t someone you want to shun? Seriously????? Or do you just ‘disagree’ with Bernardine?

  17. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Bob, did you ever think that Obama was unaware of what Ayers had done, just as I was? He just knew him as this Professor who teaches English?

    I would never condone any of his acts of violence nor excuse them. But we do live in a society that when people do their time they should be given a new start. It’s troublesome that this guy said he doesn’t regret it, maybe he’s just evil, I don’t know, I don’t know him.

    But this is a lot of speculation over things you don’t know for sure about how they met, what Obama knew about him etc. I would be saying the same damn thing if this was McCain by the way. I tend to try to give people the benefit of the doubt regardless of their party affliation.

  18. Dan Chmielewski
    April 18, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Obama was 8 years old at the time Bob; how is he remotely responsible for the actions of other people that happened when he was a kid? Talk about a stretch.

  19. Bob
    April 18, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Heather –

    Dohrn’s comments are unfathomable

    “There’s no way to be committed to non-violence in one of the most violent societies that history has ever created. I’m not committed to non-violence in any way.” Bernardine Dohrn,

    Aryers and Dohrn weren’t anti-war activists they founded and directed a communist terrorists organization who used the Vietnam war as the foil for launching their campaign to completely destroy America – “The group referred to itself as a revolutionary organization of men and women whose purpose was to carry out a series of attacks that would achieve the revolutionary overthrow of the Government of the United States. The belief was that these types of urban guerrilla actions would act as a catalyst for the coming revolution. Many international events indeed seemed to support the Weathermen’s overall assertion that worldwide revolution was imminent,

    The Weathermen KILLED people and their goal was to create a revolution uprising through terror leading to the enslavement of the people of the US under a Stalinist government. NOTHING about them is “Liberal”

    I want to correct you Ayers never did ANY “Time” and never paid any debt to society for his crimes. He boasts that he would do them again and regrets that he didn’t do more.

    I knew who the Weathermen were when I was 19 years old. You honestly think Obama had no idea who they were when he accepted their invitation to hold an event for him at their home????

  20. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Thanks Bob for showing me exactly how Republicans plan on swiftboating Obama. Perfect, it’s so helpful.

  21. Dan Chmielewski
    April 18, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Bob — I am 7 months older than Senator Obama; I consider myself well read and I have heard of the Weatherman organization; but I’m challenged to provide any meaningful detail. That all said, your argument on Obama’s knowledge or relationship with Ayers as it pertains to Obama’s fitness to be president is absurd. Its a weak argument. Why don’t you focus your energy on Obama’s positions on healthcare, the war on terror, and the economy. That’s what really matters to most Americans

  22. Bob
    April 18, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Dan:

    Answer: Obama was a full grown man (not 8 years old) when he accepted Ayers and Dohrn as friends and political supporters even though both of them never apologized for their ‘actions” in fact they are very proud of what they did. THAT’s the difference. For Obama to compare Rep Tom Coburn to the actions and believes of Ayers and Dohrn shows that he can’t understand evil and those who want to destroy our nation.

    You were so clever in your video post. Here’s a clip of burning buildings from the siege at Waco – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S75N4r5VmuU&feature=related pulling little bodies from the smoldering ash. Hummm… maybe this is where Timothy McVey’s “anger” comes from so now we can have deeper understanding for his passion. Nope he’s still an A hole just like Wright.

    How about a fun test if you’re up for it. I’ll post a series of three quotes one from McVey, Bill Ayers and former KKK Head Dragon and Democrat nominee Tom Metzger. You try and find the one matching the communist terrorist who’s “friendly” with Obama, could we assume those would be the least offensive? I’ll give you four chances – Get them correct and I’ll send you a six pack of liberal beer. Get them wrong and you have to write a “I won’t shun you’ letter to Tom or McVey’s brother.

    Wait that’s not a fair bet. You woudl write those letters anyway becasue as we know liberals don’t like to judge and shun people with different views “There are people in my community with whom I strongly disagree but I would never think of shunning them. ”

    Is this argument over?? Can I stick a fort in it?

  23. Heather Pritchard
    April 18, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Bob – Your irrational argument is insulting. Obama has gotten the same thing from the left when he allowed an ex-gay preacher named McClurkin to speak at an event of his. This man said that Homosexuality could be cured, he was vilified by the left because of his beliefs and Obama was also put through the ringer. He did not approve of his beliefs but he said that we should be talking to people who don’t agree with us, people we may not understand nor get in any way. Many left his campaign to Clinton for this very reason and I know of them personally.

    This goes completely with his whole approach to politics. And I’m somone who believes that the only way to live is to talk to people with whom we disagree. I’ve been accused of being naive, etc. but I find that understanding people gives a greater insight. Does it mean I condone their racism, their homophobia or their anger? No.

    And how the hell “they were friendly” turned into they are “friends” is beyond me. Go stick a fork in it if you want but your argument is certainly not “well done”.

  24. Bob
    April 18, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    Heather –

    You have a very open mind, kind of like a head wound.

    Some people and organizations do not warrant having ‘discussions’ or dialoging, NAMBLA and al-Qaeda would be two examples. They should be off the table for civilized progressives to engage, your tent doesn’t have to be that big. People who engage in terrorist activities designed to destroy our nation don’t deserve your friendship, understanding or dialogue they deserve scorn.

    Could you chit chat with someone like Dorhrn who took such delight in the Manson family murders becasue they plunged a fork into Sharron Tate’s pregnant stomach?

    Page 96: … “First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!” She held up three fingers in a Manson “fork salute.” …

    Can we agree on disallowing REAL terrorists on the right or left to be our equals? I mean real terrorists BOOM! Poison, Arson.

    Obama’s campaign spokesmen said they were “friendly with Ayers” I guess that combined with them being his earliest political supporters qualifies them as ‘friends’.

    We could be ‘friends’. I wouldn’t expect you to think I would be friends with skinheads – I heckled and yelled at skinheads them when they were trying to hold a rally they didn’t deserve my friendship or understanding.

  25. Dan Chmielewski
    April 18, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Bob — What does Waco have to do with Obama? And you’re holding people accountable for things they did 40 years ago. I don’t hold my friends accountable for things they did well before I knew them. Your arguments really defy logic.

    Shall I hold John McCain accountable for his wife’s theft of prescription drugs from her own charity? Or for plagiarizing recipes from the Food Networks?

    We get it; you don’t like Obama. Does Hillary know someone you hate too?

  26. Bob
    April 18, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    Arrrrrgggg

    In your post you are using footage of atrocities committed by our government to justify Rev Wright’s ‘anger’ and his conspiracy theories about the us government. That’s as silly as reviewing Waco footage for us to ‘understand’ Timothy McVey – the horrendous actions at Waco was his justification for his “anger” at our government.

    I stole a fruitcake off a neighbor’s porch 25 years ago. I am ashamed of my actions, I wish I could go back in time and not have done that, if I knew who the people were who I stole from I would write them an apology. (all true) My behavior does not reflect the person I am today.

    Why?

    Ayers founded a terrorist organization dedicated to overthrowing our government and replacing it with a Stalinist regime. It conducted acts designed to instill terror, it killed people, he created and planted and detonated bombs. (its not the same as stealing a fruit cake) Although totally guilty these crimes he did not accept responsibility, he fought the charges and got off on a technicality. He has publicly stated that he felt that he did not do enough and wished he had bombed more – furthermore he said he wouldn’t rule out taking similar action in the future. THAT’S what makes something someone did 40 years ago relevant. Charles Manson, who Ayers wife’s held in such admeration “engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago” but the difference was he got convicted.

    Ayers is a evil person who failed at becoming Stalin – Obama should shun him until he apologizes or at least stops boasting about being a communist terrorist who is dedicated to destroying America.

  27. April 18, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    Bob – Nice ad hominem, really adds to the discussion.

    NAMBLA? Really? Of course! It’s child abuse, it’s against the law, it’s evil, they should be locked away! I love when NAMBLA is thrown out there when Dems talk about tolerance for people we may not agree with. It doesn’t mean condoning abuse of children, breaking laws, etc.

  28. Dan Chmielewski
    April 18, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    so Bob; think you migh go see the movie?

  29. NotSufferingFoolsGladly
    April 19, 2008 at 5:57 am

    To begin with, this Hate Blog features DailyKos and LyingMediaBastards.
    DailyKos is one of the most virulent, hateful, and psychotic screeds to be found anywhere. I have never before heard of LyingMediaBastards, but its very name speaks volumes about the kind and gentle people who promote it. Since everything related to this Hate Blog is far left-wing, obviously LyingMediaBastards is also far left-wing. The trouble is, the media is also far left-wing, so LyingMediaBastards can only serve the purpose of pretending that the media is not left-wing, which is a bald-faced lie, compounded by the unnecessary vulgarity.

    And yet we find Heather passionately defending Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, calling this “Swiftboating.” I think David Duke might consider himself a victim of liberal “Swiftboating,” particularly since liberals have lovingly forgiven former Kleagle of the Ku Klux Klan, Robert Byrd, the “conscience” of the Democrats in the Senate. We find Heather commenting on an “ad hominem” as if liberals like her and Mr. Chiemelewskeynzxhblah being ever and always kind, as they call conservatives “repugs” and “repukes” and “stupid” and of course always “racist.”

    Liberal hypocrisy is absolutely despicable. And I mean that with all due disrespect.

  30. Dan Chmielewski
    April 19, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Bob —
    Here’s a story in the Chicago Sun Times about Ayers. And guess what; he has a website so you can go directly to him with your complaints. But to somehow equate a board relationship between Ayers and Obama as a reason for saying Obama is not fit to be president is shotsighted and not in accordance with signifcantly more Americans than you. It is not enoguh to stop me from voting for Senator Obama should he be the nominee.

    Who is Bill Ayers?
    2008 CAMPAIGN | Former radical or respected prof, he’s a liability if Obama’s nominated, Hillary warns

    April 18, 2008Recommend (12)

    BY CHRIS FUSCO AND ABDON M. PALLASCH Staff Reporters
    Bill Ayers went underground again Thursday.

    But this time, it was to avoid a political maelstrom, not the FBI.

    » Click to enlarge image Bill Ayers
    (John H. White/Sun-Times)

    » Click to enlarge image Bill Ayers is shown in a Chicago Police mug shot in August 1968. He spent the 1970s as a Weather Underground fugitive.
    (Courtesy)

    RELATED STORIESObama’s Ayers connection never bugged anyone Obama coverage on Lynn Sweet’s blog

    Ayers, 63, spent 10 years as a fugitive in the 1970s when he was part of the “Weather Underground,” an anti-Vietnam War group that protested U.S. policies by bombing the Pentagon, U.S. Capitol and a string of other government buildings. Nobody was hurt in the attacks by the defunct organization, which the FBI labeled a “domestic terrorist group.”

    *****Today, Ayers and his wife — fellow former Weather Underground fugitive Bernardine Dohrn — live in Hyde Park, where they moved after surrendering in 1980. Federal charges against the two were dropped because of improper surveillance, so they avoided prison.****

    Ayers and Dohrn have raised two sons of their own and adopted a third boy whose parents were Weather Underground members who went to prison. They’ve built stellar reputations as professors: Dohrn at Northwestern’s law school, Ayers as an education professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

    Along the way, they met a rising political star named Barack Obama, who lived in their neighborhood.

    The Ayers-Obama relationship became a hot topic in Wednesday’s Democratic presidential debate. It is “an issue certainly Republicans will be raising” should Obama be the Democratic nominee for president, Obama rival Hillary Clinton said.

    In the mid-1990s, Ayers and Dohrn hosted a meet-and-greet at their house to introduce Obama to their neighbors during his first run for the Illinois Senate. In 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama’s campaign. Ayers also served alongside Obama between December 1999 and December 2002 on the board of the not-for-profit Woods Fund of Chicago. **That board met four times a year, and members would see each other at occasional dinners the group hosted.**

    Reached by the Sun-Times on her cell phone, Dohrn declined to comment. Ayers, who was traveling, did not return messages.

    But friends like Chicago political strategist Marilyn Katz said Ayers should not be a campaign issue.

    Katz met Ayers when he was 17 and they were members of Students for a Democratic Society, a peaceful group from which the Weather Underground splintered. She noted Ayers’ work with Mayor Daley to overhaul the Chicago Public Schools and likened him to Black Panther-turned-U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush.

    “What Bill Ayers and Bobby Rush … did 40 years ago has nothing to do with” the presidential campaign, Katz said. Ayers “has a national reputation. He lectures at Harvard and Vassar. He writes the textbooks that are the standard for innovative approaches to reaching inner-city youth.”

    Ayers, a Glen Ellyn native who became active in SDS while attending the University of Michigan, is the son of late Commonwealth Edison CEO Thomas G. Ayers. Ayers has praised his dad for standing by him while he was on the lam.

    A book Ayers penned about those years, Fugitive Days, landed him in hot water on Sept. 11, 2001. That morning, the New York Times ran a story about the book in which Ayers said, “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.” Ayers’ statement was made before the World Trade Center attacks, but its timing led some to believe it was in response. “My book is in fact a condemnation of terrorism in all its forms — individual, group and official,” Ayers later said in a letter to the Chicago Tribune.

    Ayers has a Web site, billayers.org, in which he blogs about politics and other subjects. **He lets friends and foes post comments.**

    In response to an Ayers posting, “End the War,” a reader wrote, “You are an anti-American communist and a terrorist. I hope you get what you deserve over and over and over.”

    Ayers has not formally endorsed Obama for president.

  31. Dan Chmielewski
    April 19, 2008 at 11:10 am

    So Bob, since we’re doing guilt by association, are you going to jump on the Bush family for their long, well-documented connections and friendship with the binLaden family? Just curious….

  32. Bladerunner
    April 19, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Ayers and Dohrn may have been friendly neighbors in the trendy Hyde Park neighborhood were the Obama’s live but they are or should be persona non grata for someone who wants to be POTUS.
    Ayers and Dohrn were terrorists, have not paid their debt to society and have not apologized or repented for the bombings and other acts of terrorism. Notwithstanding Dan’s article, neither have repudiated Ayers comment that “I don’t regret setting bombs.”

    While the Obama-Ayers association—whether it be “friendly” as Obama’s guy Axlerod said, or more as some others suggest–is troublesome, I don’t think by itself its something that should sink his campaign. In fairness, an inference that can be made in all of this is that although Obama knew about Ayers and Dohrn’s backround(if he didn’t than maybe THAT ignorance should disqualify him for POTUS)he may not have been aware that neither had renounced their past terrorism, had not recanted and not apologized. People do rehabilitate themselves and when felons are truly repentant, the American people tend to forgive past sins.

    So instead of complaining about an issue which many Americans would like cleared up, Obama would best be served by repeating his debate renunciation of the Weatherman’s activities and add that he was unaware of Ayers and Dohrn’s failure to renunciate and apologize for their past terroist acts. He should call on them to apologize and repent for their acts and if they continue to refuse to do this, give Ayers back the $200 he gave Obama in 2002 for his state senate campaign and break off further contact with them until they apologize and repent. If he does this I think he goes a long way in putting this behind him and at least mitigates the damage.

    Dan, when you lie down with dogs you get fleas. Guilt by association is not the strongest indictment of someone but, especially when dealing with someone like Obama who is relatively new on the national political scene(not for junkies like you but for the rank and file voter) these associations are information that people find of use in evaluating who a candidate is. That, sometimes, is as important as their current stand on a particular issue.

  33. April 19, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    For the record, I’m not defending Ayers nor excusing what they did in any way what-so-ever. It’s unfortunate that they are not sorry for what they did. Ayers unrepentance  is wrong and his beliefs are radical and do not fit with most American’s belief system.  If he went unpunished for what he did that is also a travesty in of itself.
    I am defending Obama and giving him the benefit of the doubt because I feel his pluses far outweigh this issue and I hate to see good candidates deemed as void for such associations.  Smart?  No.  Politically savy?  No.  He met Ayers at the beginning of his political career and probably didn’t know any better.  It shouldn’t be grounds for dismissing him as a candidate.  As for swiftboating, this will be stuck to him by Republicans for many reasons all outlined by those above.

    And I never refer to Republicans as anything but Republicans.  The nicknames, the insults and the condescension adds nothing to the conversation.

  34. Dan Chmielewski
    April 19, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    Nice to see you back Bladerunner; I was afraid we had chased you away.

    I can see how the fleas metaphor applies here, but the fleas are non-partisan. Can’t we also say that Senator McCain has slept with a fair number of dogs in the course of his senate career?

    And for Bob, Daily Kos is hardly a hate site; that’s Fox News speech. If you want to see some hate, wander over to Margaret Cho’s website for some of the comments those on the right wing left behind for her after he did a benefit for MoveOn.org. Daily Kos is partisan; and the comments are no worse than the comments folks leave on Bill O’Reilly’s site or Rush Limbaugh’s.

  35. Bob
    April 19, 2008 at 11:06 pm

    Crazy comments- are one thing actions are another. Bernadine and her husband were into action – vile action. Their words and views should be enough to make them social pariahs by anyone who loves this country let alone what they did. Again my first comment said NONE of you would accept an invite by Aryes or Dohrn to host an event for your campaign.

    You just cannot believe that Obama was unaware of who Ayres and Bernadine were. He was just some college professor? That was their shtick ‘former radical Celebrities’ former is just a kind word for failed. Did you folks give Sheriff Corona the ‘benefit of doubt’ when he was hanging out with a strip club owner with ties to the mob? He has no idea about his background or what he did for a living? What if Rizzo held a fundraiser for Corona, then would you think Corona would have know who he was?

    I don’t know if anyone here has ever run for office – you KNOW who the people are who open up their homes for your campaign. You know what they do and their backgrounds, you speak to your hosts and get to know them and their views. You know when your initial supporters write books, when they are interviewed by the New Your Times.

    I was always amazed whenever I got a flyer announcing a big march against aid to the Contras in the 80’s. The flyer would always have a listing of ‘sponsors’ 100 or so groups. Among them would be the Communist Party, Spartacus Youth League, Progressive Labor Party, Young Communists, Revolutionary Communist Party and a host of other Marxist-Leninist groups. It’s just an odd thing about Liberals, there doesn’t seem to be any qualms about treating “radicals” as if they just another group of people who hold slightly different opinions. Obama seems indifferent to evil comments or actions unwilling to take a stand against them.

    I don’t know of any conservative who would hang out with someone who ACTUALLY bombed abortion clinics, gay bars or government buildings.

  36. April 20, 2008 at 7:05 am

    The only hard facts that have come out so far are the $200 contribution by Ayers to the Obama re-election fund, and their joint membership of the eight-person Woods Fund Board. Ayers did not respond to e-mails and telephone calls requesting clarification of the relationship. Obama spokesman Bill Burton noted in a statement that Ayers was a professor of education at the University of Illinois and a former aide to Mayor Richard M. Daley, and continued:

    Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.

    In the short term, the person who has most to gain by speculation about Obama’s acquaintance with a former terrorist is Hillary Clinton. The former First Lady likes to present herself as “tested and vetted” after years of exposure to Republican attacks, in contrast to Obama, a relative newcomer to hardscrabble presidential politics. Such arguments resonate with Johnson, the counterterrorism expert, who told me that he is a Clinton supporter, although not involved with the campaign.

    But the Obama-Ayers link is a tenuous one. As Newsday pointed out, Clinton has her own, also tenuous, Weatherman connection. Her husband commuted the sentences of a couple of convicted Weather Underground members, Susan Rosenberg and Linda Sue Evans, shortly before leaving office in January 2001. Which is worse: pardoning a convicted terrorist or accepting a campaign contribution from a former Weatherman who was never convicted?

    Whatever his past, Ayers is now a respected member of the Chicago intelligentsia, and still a member of the Woods Fund Board. The president of the Woods Fund, Deborah Harrington, said he had been selected for the board because of his solid academic credentials and “passion for social justice.”

    “This whole connection is a stretch,” Harrington told me. “Barack was very well known in Chicago, and a highly respected legislator. It would be difficult to find people round here who never volunteered or contributed money to one of his campaigns.”

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

  37. April 20, 2008 at 7:31 am

    Hi Bob, I have some scary news for you. (Yes, we might as well let him know, Heather, I already told another rightwinger yesterday and the way I see it, it just sounds too crazy for most people to believe, but Bob may as well know because the cat is out of the bag…)

    The actual plan (which the precocious Obama hatched when he was 8 – remember how he wanted to be President since kindergarten?) is to make Ayers Secretary of Defense and Dohrn National Security Adviser – Obama’s Rumsfeld and Rice.

    Their activities in the 70’s were just their initial (slighty awkward) training for what they’ll be doing overseas against our enemies when they work for President Obama. During their so-called time in exile they were actually working with the Army Special Forces and CIA honing their craft, but I don’t expect to see you complaining when they capture Bin Laden in Waziristan and blow up all the Al Qaeda safehouses in the first week of Obama’s administration.

    Anyway this is all going to work out fine, and you can go ahead and tell Sean Hannity about this, I’m not worried, because he won’t believe you!

  38. April 20, 2008 at 8:33 am

    Vern – You do realize that after having revealed this you will be expelled from the collective?

  39. April 20, 2008 at 10:03 am

    Yet again the OC Republicans decide that when losing, their best hope is to change the subject. Without the Chewbacca defense they’d have nothing.

    But then I guess it makes sense – otherwise folks might be talking about Republican efforts to close down public schools, their role in destroying the middle-class, the worsening health care crisis, etc. When trying to construct an aristocracy, they have little other choice but to try and distract folks with ancient history.

  40. April 20, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Well let’s just eat our own babies shall we? What collective?

  41. April 20, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Collective sarcasm…

  42. Bob
    April 20, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Vern – You’re a funny guy –

    What don’t you get? They’re Villains real life evil people who should not be allowed into polite political circles.

    “Whatever his past, Ayers is now a respected member of the Chicago intelligentsia,”

    Ayres isn’t respected by all liberals – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers#cite_note-Smith-3
    His history occasionally surfaces, as when he was asked not to attend a progressive educators’ conference in the fall of 2006 on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with his past[8].

    “Which is worse: pardoning a convicted terrorist or accepting a campaign contribution from a former Weatherman who was never convicted?”

    Convicted??? Like OJ??

    “Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. America is a great country.” Bill Ayres.

    Some of the former Weathermen have some shred of remorse –
    (Rudd) He held a leadership position on “the Weather Bureau” until about the time of the townhouse bombing in March 1970, although he says he was not directly involved in planning or building the bomb. A day or two before the disaster, Rudd says, he learned that the device was intended for the Fort Dix dance. “In retrospect,” he says, choosing his words carefully, “I’ve always wished that I had had the presence of mind to take some action to stop it.”

    But Rudd’s mentality at the time, and the group’s, was entirely different. He remembers thinking, “‘We’ve got to carry this through. We’ve got to carry out armed attacks against the imperialist enemy.’ I guess it must have been a terrorist state of mind.”

    But not Ayers and Dohrn they still pay tribute to their would be mass murdering friends – Today, they still go every March 6 to put flowers on the site of the Village townhouse where their own bombs destroyed their comrades’ young lives. They also traveled to Vietnam, to pay homage to Ho Chi Minh at his grave.

    Ted Gold, and Terry Robbins—who died making a bomb meant to blow up American soldiers and civilans at Fort Dix dance. “How much longer” will it take to honor “the three who died on Eleventh Street?” Ayres demands. “How much longer for Diana? When will she be remembered?”

    Dohrn and Ayres revel in their roles as terrorists. And would not count out continuing their terrorists actions if the climate was right – Asked whether he would do it again, he answers, “I don’t want to discount the possibility.” Or, as he puts it in Fugitive Days: A Memoir, “I can’t imagine entirely dismissing the possibility.”

    Ancient history? Hardly.

    We can all play some guessing games about what Obama knew about his political benefactors, maybe he had absolutely no idea what they are about.

    I want to wrap this up so I’m going to “out you” as being good hearted Liberals who love our country and answer the question I put to you at the start of this post via role call sound off –

    Would you ever let Ayes and Dohrn host an event for your campaign in their home? Would you ever accept a contribution from Bill Ayres?

    Dan: NO
    Heather: No
    Vern: No
    Robert: No
    Marselle: NO

    There now I feel better about knowing you and engaging in debates about what policies are best for America, the land that (despite some problems) we all love.

  43. Bladerunner
    April 20, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Dan– I agree that fleas–at least most of them–are nonpartisan. Hillary has some fleas from Big Dog Bill among others. McCain has some old fleas from Savings and Loan Dog Charles Keating and some newer fleas from that anti-Catholic dog Rev. John Hagee.

    People are interested in who a candidate is and what they care about. Who they know, who they associate with is part of the overall makeup of the man or woman. Their personality traits, their convictions, and their temperament all actor into choices. That’s why Hillary’s sniper on the tarmac fish story had legs–many people want to know if the candidates are honest(the rest just ume all politicians are liars) . That’s why John McCain’s temper may be more important to many people than his position on social security—many people don’t want a president who may melt down when his finger is on the nuclear trigger–ala former GOP Senator Bob Smith who said McCain’s temper would perhaps put the world in danger and that it would disqualify McCain from office). And that’s why people want to know more about this relatively unknown–to the rank and file voter–Barack Obama—who is he, who does he hang around with and who has given him support.

    It’s not a matter of changing the subject–both political parties change the subject when they are on unfavorable ground. You simply have to deal with the attacks and reassure the American public–than go back to the issues you want to talk about. If Obama thinks that he will wish the Weathergate matter away by brushing it off his shoulders I submit he is mistaken. His failure to directly criticize Ayers and Dohrn, his failure to give Ayers his $200 back, his failure to ask that they repent and apologize for their terrorist activity(he can praise their recent community involvement, but has got to deal with their past) and his unfortunate comparison of Senator Coburn and Ayers all mean that this story will fester like a boil, waiting to pop in October if not before should he get the nomination. As I said, I think he can mitigate the damage and move on to other topics but he needs to remember—even though the Obama supporters may not care about this subject or may quickly say that despite it that they are still for Barack, the rest of the country may not be so charitable. Obama needs to avoid being like McCain was today, admitting it was a mistake to solicit and accept Rev. Hagee’s endorsement and than in the next breath, say he was still glad he had Hagee’s endorsement. Ayers and/or Obama are too smart to have Ayeres endorse Barack but there is enough of a connection that Obama needs to get on it. And quickly.

  44. Dan Chmielewski
    April 20, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Bob —
    Please don’t register my vote; this isn’t something that I’m going to face, so you are presumptive.

    Vern —
    Like it or not, Bob is engaged in a fact-based debate; we don’t agree, but I think a fact-based response is best suit for this; satire is not always appropriate and in this case, its not.

    Bladerunner — I agree with you on a number of levels here. I don’t think the Hillary/Sniper story is all that big of a deal. Nor do I think Weathergate is for Obama. What does trouble me about Obama is his John Kerry-like delayed responses to trivial flare ups. He does address them well, but several days into the process. If Kerry had responded quickly and forcefully to the Rovian Swiftboating in 2004, he might be up for re-election now.

    Back to you Bob — we’re partisan Democrats here; I’m a proud liberal. You are not goingto change my mind to vote for Republicans in this race no matter what.

  45. April 20, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Beg to differ, Mr.Chmielewski, I feel in all serious Democratic sincerity that sometimes the only appropriate response to rightwing talking points, especially when they are repeated ad nauseam, is RIDICULE. And that I know how to do.

  46. April 20, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    Bladerunner _ I agree, I don’t believe Obama has done enough to distance himself from Ayers and you offer good advice.

  47. Dan Chmielewski
    April 20, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Bob — while we’re on the subjcts of radical subversives from the 1970s, shouldn’t John McCain refute his support from G. Gordon Liddy, a man covincted of crimes during Watergate in attempts to subvert the constitution and kill off the two-party system? Liddy is unapologetic of his actions for Nixon, and like Ayers says he wishes he did more of it and better. McCain was on his radio program last November. Why would McCain do this? Shouldn’t he denounce all that Liddy has ever done or said? And aren’t the actions of by Lt. Colonel Oliver North in the 1980s also worthy of repudiation? North violated a Congressional decree on the Iran-Contra scandal. This was an act of treason, yet he paid no price for it. By his comments on Fox News, North is a de facto supporter of McCain. McCain should denounce him too right? Would you denounce the support of Liddy and North Bob?

  48. Bob
    April 20, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    Would I have Liddy hold a fundraising event/met and greet for me in his home? No

    -Contra scandal. This was an act of treason, yet he paid no price for it. – North actually got 800 hours community service.

    But that’s the best tit for tat apples to apples you came up with?

    You’re talking about two media personalities who haven’t held events for McCain or given him money or are friends with him.

    What Liddy did and North did was wrong. Their crimes don’t come anywhere near what Dorhn or Ayres did or advocated. You need to google abortion bombers or Klansmen or Militia bank robbers to find a name of anyone on the right that comes close to Obama’s backers.

    You can rent “The Weathermen” at Hollywood Video if you have an interest in the “new left” lots of interviews with former Weathermen including Dorhn who comes off as a sexy revolutionary. Bits and pieces of it are on You Tube.

    “we’re partisan Democrats here; I’m a proud liberal. You are not going to change my mind to vote for Republicans in this race no matter what.”

    You don’t have to vote for McCain – I’ll barely punch his name on the ticket. Obama involvement with Ayres is part of a bigger problem with liberals/left wing activists. Being a Stalinist is chic, if its associating with Communist Revolutionaries, putting up Che Guevara posters (like they have in Obama’s campaign offices) or including Maoists in your anti (nuke- contra –Iraq war) demonstrations you guys just don’t seem to have a big problem with people who have an evil ideology, want to destroy your country, would kill you if they were in power.

    Finally – (I hope) many people will say that Ayres and the Weathermen did not accomplish anything substantial. Not true.

    They succeeded in marginalizing true progressives and help deliver a landslide defeat for George McGovern. Every bomb they set off translated into a million Republican votes. Now almost 40 years later Ayers and Dorhn are helping to insure a Republican victory in the fall. They scare and offend people, Ayers promotional photo for his book had him standing on an American Flag. Obama’s failure to avoid these people addresses the only thing his campaign is about – leadership and ‘ideas.’ When Republican consultants get done educating the public “swiftly” about Obama’s friends he will follow in George McGovern’s footsteps. Michelle will once again have nothing to be proud about America.

  49. Dan Chmielewski
    April 21, 2008 at 9:14 am

    “What Liddy did and North did was wrong. Their crimes don’t come anywhere near what Dorhn or Ayres did or advocated”

    We agree there Bob; what North and Liddy did was far worse.

    Let’s see how much support McCain gets from Liddy and North via their media positions in the months to come and tell me that McCain will reject it somehow?

  50. just...asking?
    April 21, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Agree with Dan that ridicule of fact based points is inappropriate. It is a wingnut tactic that smacks of Roveism. Liberals and progressives should not dismiss facts just because it looks like we’ll win vote totals.
    If we are really different we not stoop to the same tactics of the last 8 years.

    I also agree that the Obama campaign is slow to stop these little flare-ups before they become fires. Hillary’s people probably have a lot more experiance with these issues, even if the response is just a “my bad” (sniper fire). It works, people who support you are ok with mistakes, and those that oppose you were not going to vote for you anyway. But it lets your supporters move on to the next battle and not get mired down in the muck.

    Finally, agree with Bob that Obama should be clear that he disassociates himself from Ayers and Dohrn.

  51. Dan Chmielewski
    April 22, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    To NotSufferingFoolsGladly — I meant to write and respond to you much ealrier in this process but it got away from me.

    1. The Liberal OC is not a hate site; we hate what George Bush is doing to this count and we disagree with our Republican friends who say one thing and do another, but it is not a hate site. If you want to read hate sites, I suggest you mosey on over to Michelle Malkin’s blog or read the comments in Bill O’Reilly’s blog, or better still go to Margaret Cho’s blog and read the nasty comments Republicans left for her after she did a benefit for move on.org which had the joke “Bush isn’t Hitler. But he could be if he applied himself.” Also, the Daily Kos is not a hate site no matter how much Bill O’Reilly says it is. Are some of the comments there harsh? Yep. No worse than comments on O’Relly’s own site.

    2. I realize that little tidbit about my last name might have amused you. Yes, I know its hard to spell and others are compelled to cut-and-paste it, but it was my father’s name. And it was good enough for him. So its good enough for me. But if that’s the best you could to try and offend me, you’ll have to do better than that.

Comments are closed.