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	<title>Comments on: Lets Hope Michele Martinez Gets Off The Crazy Train</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/</link>
	<description>Challenging Orange County&#039;s right-wing noise machine</description>
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		<title>By: d'Anconia</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12528</link>
		<dc:creator>d'Anconia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12528</guid>
		<description>LOL

This is all very, very hilarious.  Kudos to Sean.  I immediately respect your opinion a lot more now that you don&#039;t write for Orange Juice.  I have to admit this is the first full post of yours that I have read and I can tell you care about change in your city, not for your own personal gain and grandstanding like Art Pedroza, but because you actually care about social change in Santa Ana. 

One can only hope that your move motivates others to move away from the kool-aid fountain that is OJ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL</p>
<p>This is all very, very hilarious.  Kudos to Sean.  I immediately respect your opinion a lot more now that you don&#8217;t write for Orange Juice.  I have to admit this is the first full post of yours that I have read and I can tell you care about change in your city, not for your own personal gain and grandstanding like Art Pedroza, but because you actually care about social change in Santa Ana. </p>
<p>One can only hope that your move motivates others to move away from the kool-aid fountain that is OJ.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12526</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12526</guid>
		<description>Art and Sean:  

Grow up.  Seriously.  Stop acting like a couple of third graders.  The sandbox is for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art and Sean:  </p>
<p>Grow up.  Seriously.  Stop acting like a couple of third graders.  The sandbox is for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12504</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12504</guid>
		<description>Thinking while typing: I see two things in this thread, which is maybe winding down. First is the bit about Measure D. A second is the point about whether Sean ought to have written any of this and whether it&#039;s an attack and all that very Orange Juice blog type innuendo reporting. This thread has been juiced! But the personalities point is overplayed, and it&#039;s already overwhelming the discussion. The more interesting thing is what Pedroza, Overmyer, and Lomeli say in response to Sean about the coalition brewing to defeat Measure D. But Pedroza&#039;s attack is predictably personal in nature and tends to distract from a reasonable disagreement. I think, Sean, that you&#039;re right to wonder how much gets accomplished through the defeat of Measure D. I just don&#039;t agree with you that it&#039;s all that risky to oppose the measure. I think Michele stakes out a good and consistent &quot;reform&quot; position by opposing &quot;D&quot; - which is why I supported her election. What comes next only time will tell. 

Art Lomeli... it&#039;s good to see you over here too. Now that there&#039;s more of a Santa Ana representation at this blog, I hope to see you commenting here more often. Best to your family...

Peace,
james</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking while typing: I see two things in this thread, which is maybe winding down. First is the bit about Measure D. A second is the point about whether Sean ought to have written any of this and whether it&#8217;s an attack and all that very Orange Juice blog type innuendo reporting. This thread has been juiced! But the personalities point is overplayed, and it&#8217;s already overwhelming the discussion. The more interesting thing is what Pedroza, Overmyer, and Lomeli say in response to Sean about the coalition brewing to defeat Measure D. But Pedroza&#8217;s attack is predictably personal in nature and tends to distract from a reasonable disagreement. I think, Sean, that you&#8217;re right to wonder how much gets accomplished through the defeat of Measure D. I just don&#8217;t agree with you that it&#8217;s all that risky to oppose the measure. I think Michele stakes out a good and consistent &#8220;reform&#8221; position by opposing &#8220;D&#8221; &#8211; which is why I supported her election. What comes next only time will tell. </p>
<p>Art Lomeli&#8230; it&#8217;s good to see you over here too. Now that there&#8217;s more of a Santa Ana representation at this blog, I hope to see you commenting here more often. Best to your family&#8230;</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
james</p>
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		<title>By: Sean H. Mill</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12503</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean H. Mill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12503</guid>
		<description>just...asking?,

I do admire Michele and her efforts.  I do however question her choice in advisors.  Many of the folks like Dr. Lomeli and John Acosta are good people who truly care about the community.  Others however are more interested in stirring the pot and grandstanding then they are about bringinging real change to Santa Ana.

If John Acosta has a problem with anything I have said or written he will pick up the phone and let me know.  I have known John for over 20 years and he is a stand-up guy who would give me the straight scoop.  You see he isn&#039;t like some of these folks that claim to be a friend and then go slander me on a blog just to get hits.

Michele on the other hand does not take my calls anymore and won&#039;t speak to me because of stories concocted by he newfound advisors.  The self-annointed leader of the &quot;revolution&quot; has been running his mouth all over town telling anyone that will listen that Michele is going to use Measure D to catapult herself into the Mayors seat.  If Michele&#039;s advisors are telling me and everyone else this, surely she has heard it too and done nothing to stop them from saying this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just&#8230;asking?,</p>
<p>I do admire Michele and her efforts.  I do however question her choice in advisors.  Many of the folks like Dr. Lomeli and John Acosta are good people who truly care about the community.  Others however are more interested in stirring the pot and grandstanding then they are about bringinging real change to Santa Ana.</p>
<p>If John Acosta has a problem with anything I have said or written he will pick up the phone and let me know.  I have known John for over 20 years and he is a stand-up guy who would give me the straight scoop.  You see he isn&#8217;t like some of these folks that claim to be a friend and then go slander me on a blog just to get hits.</p>
<p>Michele on the other hand does not take my calls anymore and won&#8217;t speak to me because of stories concocted by he newfound advisors.  The self-annointed leader of the &#8220;revolution&#8221; has been running his mouth all over town telling anyone that will listen that Michele is going to use Measure D to catapult herself into the Mayors seat.  If Michele&#8217;s advisors are telling me and everyone else this, surely she has heard it too and done nothing to stop them from saying this.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean H. Mill</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12502</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean H. Mill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12502</guid>
		<description>Gartston,

Why would we want to censure Pedroza?  His own words are the best argument we have against him.  The more he talks the deeper the hole he is in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gartston,</p>
<p>Why would we want to censure Pedroza?  His own words are the best argument we have against him.  The more he talks the deeper the hole he is in.</p>
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		<title>By: art lomeli</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12497</link>
		<dc:creator>art lomeli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 02:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12497</guid>
		<description>Sean,

Those opposing Meaure D agree with you . &quot;The measure is not the most thought out  plan and lacks any real substance&quot;. In addition it contradicts the recommendation of the task force set up to advice the council on term limits.

You have also stated it is irrelevant as it will not change anything in city government.. If so why put it on a ballot at a cost of $180,000. This in it self is reason to oppose and question the interest of the council supporting it. You have said, that to you, Measure D is a non issue????

Why do you question Michele and / or her advisors&#039;s motive for opposing measure D and not question Sal and the other council members and their advisors for supporting Measure D? You state on a previous post that you are glad to be on this blog because it offers you an opportunity to freely express ideas and does not simply try to  slant the perspective of issues at hand.

In my view not addressing the motives of the opposing and supportive points of view on Measure D and relating it to Michele&#039;s future election interests without discussing Measure D and how this motivates the future politics of those that support it is inconsistant and slanting the perspective of the issue at hand. 

You are violating the reason you came to this blog.

How smart is it to vote for something you do not believe in simply to be a consensus guy? True leadership sometimes results in unpopularity amongst you peers.

I believe council members are capable of multitasking . Dealing with this issue does not prevent any of them including Michele from attending other city issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean,</p>
<p>Those opposing Meaure D agree with you . &#8220;The measure is not the most thought out  plan and lacks any real substance&#8221;. In addition it contradicts the recommendation of the task force set up to advice the council on term limits.</p>
<p>You have also stated it is irrelevant as it will not change anything in city government.. If so why put it on a ballot at a cost of $180,000. This in it self is reason to oppose and question the interest of the council supporting it. You have said, that to you, Measure D is a non issue????</p>
<p>Why do you question Michele and / or her advisors&#8217;s motive for opposing measure D and not question Sal and the other council members and their advisors for supporting Measure D? You state on a previous post that you are glad to be on this blog because it offers you an opportunity to freely express ideas and does not simply try to  slant the perspective of issues at hand.</p>
<p>In my view not addressing the motives of the opposing and supportive points of view on Measure D and relating it to Michele&#8217;s future election interests without discussing Measure D and how this motivates the future politics of those that support it is inconsistant and slanting the perspective of the issue at hand. </p>
<p>You are violating the reason you came to this blog.</p>
<p>How smart is it to vote for something you do not believe in simply to be a consensus guy? True leadership sometimes results in unpopularity amongst you peers.</p>
<p>I believe council members are capable of multitasking . Dealing with this issue does not prevent any of them including Michele from attending other city issues.</p>
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		<title>By: just...asking?</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12496</link>
		<dc:creator>just...asking?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 01:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12496</guid>
		<description>Welcome Sean!

I enjoy both this and OJ, so it will be nice to keep on reading your posts.

That said, the measure D item is important from a power play perspective.  Pulido, via Sal got effectively what he wanted no term limits for himself.  The extension for Alvarez bought her vote and backroom arm twisting finished off the others.  Except for Michele.  For a young elected to stand up for principle when it would have been much easier to go along should be admired.  I think by your words you also admire her effort and passion for the City of S.A.

A defeat of D would send a message to city leadership and senior staffers that the old way of business is over.  It might be time for them to get to work and do something about crime and infrastructure.  

Michele will have plenty of time to go for Mayor&#039;s seat if thats what she wants.  But did her campaign manager approve your releasing his opinion about her future on a blog?  Did you ask Michele about this before you blogged it? 

Aren&#039;t you doing the very kind of post that so many attack Art P. for?

solo preguntas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome Sean!</p>
<p>I enjoy both this and OJ, so it will be nice to keep on reading your posts.</p>
<p>That said, the measure D item is important from a power play perspective.  Pulido, via Sal got effectively what he wanted no term limits for himself.  The extension for Alvarez bought her vote and backroom arm twisting finished off the others.  Except for Michele.  For a young elected to stand up for principle when it would have been much easier to go along should be admired.  I think by your words you also admire her effort and passion for the City of S.A.</p>
<p>A defeat of D would send a message to city leadership and senior staffers that the old way of business is over.  It might be time for them to get to work and do something about crime and infrastructure.  </p>
<p>Michele will have plenty of time to go for Mayor&#8217;s seat if thats what she wants.  But did her campaign manager approve your releasing his opinion about her future on a blog?  Did you ask Michele about this before you blogged it? </p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t you doing the very kind of post that so many attack Art P. for?</p>
<p>solo preguntas?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Prevatt</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12495</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Prevatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 01:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12495</guid>
		<description>Sorry Gartston:

We like it when Art makes a fool of himself, and censuring him would violate the purpose of this blog.

Free flow of discussion and debate.  As long as people remain civil, their posts will not be censured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Gartston:</p>
<p>We like it when Art makes a fool of himself, and censuring him would violate the purpose of this blog.</p>
<p>Free flow of discussion and debate.  As long as people remain civil, their posts will not be censured.</p>
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		<title>By: Gartston</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-12494</link>
		<dc:creator>Gartston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberaloc.com/2007/12/14/lets-hope-michele-martinez-gets-off-the-crazy-train/#comment-12494</guid>
		<description>Please censure all Art&#039;s posts just as he has censured Sean.  Art is the enemy of free speech and free thinking (of, unless of couse, you agree with Art).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please censure all Art&#8217;s posts just as he has censured Sean.  Art is the enemy of free speech and free thinking (of, unless of couse, you agree with Art).</p>
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