Why No Protest of Senator Brownback?

Members of Saddleback church are upset with Pastor Rick Warren for inviting Senator Barrack Obama (D-IL) to speak at the church’s 2nd annual AIDS Awareness Conference.  The criticism is largely due to Senator Obama’s Pro-Choice position.

But I wonder what Jesus would do here, as Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) is also speaking and he’s a staunch supporter of the War in Iraq which just about everyone knows had nothig to do with 9/11. 

Both men are talking about a very Christian value of attending to the sick – those who have AIDS or are HIV+ and both men should be commended for making awareness of this disease and education about it a human issue and not a partisan one.

So, Saddleback church goers, go with an open mind and an open heart.  This event is not a debate on abortion but on AIDS. 

  25 comments for “Why No Protest of Senator Brownback?

  1. November 30, 2006 at 1:06 pm

    Obama has reached out to members of all faiths (or lack there of). Brownback has catered specifically to evangelicals.

    That possibly explains the difference.

    After seeing Obama speak in Boston, I would vote for him, even if he reaches out to religious groups. Just don’t reach out to one specific religious group like Brownback has.

  2. Barack's Wife
    November 30, 2006 at 1:15 pm

    Why does that surprise anyone? The evangelical Christians are so full of disdain for anyone that doesn’t think exactly like them. It wouldn’t matter if Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize or if he turned out to be the second coming of Christ himself, he is still evil in the eyes of these closed-minded people. His forward thinking will lead him to great things in the end.

  3. November 30, 2006 at 1:37 pm

    you see dan, the culture of life ends at birth and only counts again if you’re in a coma for 15 years.

    living breathing brown people in this or, especially, another country? well, it’s god’s will that they be bombed back to the stone age.

  4. Dan Chmielewski
    November 30, 2006 at 1:49 pm

    Serrach — it’s funny you bring that up; in spite of the reslts of Terry Schiavo’s autopsy, I still have hard core Christian friends who maintain she could have come out of it. I have a number of folks trying to save my soul by getting me and my family to go to their church. Pray for me!

  5. aria ghafari
    November 30, 2006 at 2:15 pm

    why aren’t the minutemen protesting brownback? hes is a staunch supporter of illegal immigrant legalization. we haven’t seen gilchrists smug on tv for a couple weeks, heres another reason for him to make an ass of himself

  6. November 30, 2006 at 3:02 pm

    Hahahah — you’re all so clever! And those poor stupid, racist evangelical Christians are just so…stupid and racist! And praying for someone’s salvation — can you believe it!

    Too bad they can’t be as clever and enlightened as you folks.

  7. Dan Chmielewski
    November 30, 2006 at 3:17 pm

    Matt — no one here called Evangelicals racist. No one. Scroll up and see for yourself. There is a reference to brown people, but I read that as a reference to Iraqis (you want to see brown? My Italian wife after a week in Maui).

    But back to the original post; why isn’t Brownback being protested? Warfare is not something Christ would endorse; attacking a country that posed no threat to us nor attacked us directly.

  8. November 30, 2006 at 4:05 pm

    Actually, Serrach’s comment was a pretty direct assertion that evangelical Christians think it is “God’s will” to bomb “brown people in this, or especially another country” back to “the Stone Age.”

    That’s saying evangelicals are racist. Unfortunately, too many lefties think it is OK to be a bigot as long as it is directed towards traditional Christians.

    Brownback isn’t being protested because he’s not a pro-choice liberal like Obama. As for the Iraq War, reasonable people can, did and still do disagree on the wisdom or justification of invading Iraq. As for Christ, I don’t recall him saying one thing or another about warfare. After Peter struck off the ear of the high priest’s slave, Christ told him “he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.” Christ also said, “Do not think I have come to bring peace to the Earth. I have come not to bring peace, but the sword.”

  9. November 30, 2006 at 4:24 pm

    i referred to evangelicals gleeful persecution of mexicans and support for bombing iraqis.

    nothing more.

    hit a little close to home jubal?

  10. November 30, 2006 at 4:26 pm

    and i too am of the opinion that jesus taught folks to practice peace. that doesn’t seem to be the jesus that’s popular these days. if my comments do not reflect your views, you must be one of the good ones. they are still out there but under represented because of a hateful majority.

  11. November 30, 2006 at 5:31 pm

    i referred to evangelicals gleeful persecution of mexicans and support for bombing iraqis.

    No — you said evangelicals don’t care about human life unless it is in utero or involves a comatose person, and said they think it’s God’s will that “brown people” here and abroad be bombed.

    Your backpedaling notwithstanding, you are the one who injected race into the conversation and painted evangelicals as being bigots.

    hit a little close to home jubal?

    No, but let me ask my Mexican wife just to be sure.

  12. November 30, 2006 at 5:32 pm

    i referred to evangelicals gleeful persecution of mexicans and support for bombing iraqis.

    No — you said evangelicals don’t care about human life unless it is in utero or involves a comatose person, and said they think it’s God’s will that “brown people” here and abroad be bombed.

    Your backpedaling notwithstanding, you are the one who injected race into the conversation and painted evangelicals as being bigots.

    hit a little close to home jubal?

    No, but let me ask my Mexican wife just to be sure.

  13. Dan Chmielewski
    November 30, 2006 at 5:35 pm

    The Bible is full of contradictions that make it hard to distiguish an actual event from allegory; did Jesus contradict himself in th example you provided?

    For example, I had a friendly debate with a neighbor of mine if Jonah could have survived three days in a whale’s belly. She insisted it has happened before; I have found only one historical reference of someone who survived being swallowed by a whale and that was only for an 8 hour period. I tend to believe if you have been swallowed by a whale, the only thing you’re going to be in three days is whale poop.

    And there are different interpretations of the Bible. For example, did Mary and Joseph ever …you know… after Jesus was born. Google it; you will get many interpretations.

    None of this has anything to do with Faith per se, but back to the point of my original post…there are a considerable number of reasons why Saddleback members should protest Brownback. That all said, I don’t think Christians in general are racist, but we certainly have racists who are Christian and racists who practice other faiths.

  14. November 30, 2006 at 5:40 pm

    I seem to have started some disastrous italicization.

  15. November 30, 2006 at 5:43 pm

    I don’t think Christ contradicted himself. But here’s where fundamentalists who believe in the inerrancy and literal truth of the Bible get into trouble, because they get tied in knots defending whether Jonah could have survived for three days in the belly of a whale — which is beside the point.

  16. Dan Chmielewski
    November 30, 2006 at 5:52 pm

    well, I keep trying to bring this back to my original point. Brownback has enough of a record to warrant protest from Christians as well. I think if Chrisitians were to examine Obama’s record compared with Brownback’s, they would have more reasons to criticize the Senator from Kansas. My best to your wife and kids.

  17. November 30, 2006 at 5:59 pm

    But why would Christians want to protest Brownback?

    And my best to yours, Dan.

  18. November 30, 2006 at 9:21 pm

    nope jubal. these are your interpretations.
    you are very quick to freak out when people misquote or put words in your mouth, i’d suggest you treat others as you would like to be treated.

    i’ve no problem whatsoever in people beleiving in fairy tale they wish, but recently it has become fashionable for christians in this country to get support killing brown foreigners and to demonize mexicans in this country while hiding behind their supposed faith. at the same time crying and wailing about the “unborn” and terri shiavo. i have no problem speaking up to that. it’s disgusting as an aside, un christ-like.

    these are the people i will mock and denigrate because they deserve it. if you feel this is you, as is apparent by your overreaction, then so be it.

    so again, no problem with folks believing in jesus, muhammed, bhudda, baal, or zeus. just don’t use your beliefs as an excuse to fly airplanes in buildings in my country or to go bomb another.

  19. November 30, 2006 at 9:29 pm

    and i never called you a racist. but i do believe that for many americans, and in general on the right, and yes, many evangelicals, race does make it easier to get excited about bombing campaigns. and dont for a moment think that people weren’t initially excited by this. it’s gross, but true.

    and like you and your mexican wife, i speak of evangelicals from years of experience in my family.

  20. Dan Chmielewski
    November 30, 2006 at 9:57 pm

    No question, Brownback is the darling of the Christian right, but not everyone who goes to Saddleback is a right wing Republican. His support for the War in Iraq is enough to make him as unsuitable a speaker as some of the Evangelicals find Obama unsuitable for his Pro-Choice stance.

  21. December 1, 2006 at 1:46 pm

    Serrach:

    I didn’t need to interpret — your statements are pretty clear. You are saying evangelicals are racists. You’ve written that several times now. That’s a pretty astounding generalization to make, and based upon your experience with evangelicals in your own family — a narrow sample.

    It bears no correlation to my experience with evangelicals, many of whom I know through friendship and GOP politics for years and years. I have never once heard any of them say or imply it is OK to bomb other countries or invade other countries because the citizens of those countries are brown (or black, yellow, whatever). Never. Do you have ANY evidence to back up your claim?

    Your assertions about evangelicals are literally unbelievable. It’s a gigantic straw man.

  22. December 1, 2006 at 1:49 pm

    Dan:

    Are saying supporting the Iraq War is un-Christian? That’s not a rhetorical question. I want to know if I’m drawing the right conclusion from your belief that Saddleback Church members ought to protest Brownback over his support for the war.

  23. December 1, 2006 at 1:58 pm

    nope never said that.

    no matter how many times you try and misquote me, it will still never be true.

    the examples i’ve given are facts, they are examples (to me) of a strange misdirection on the part of evangelicals. i don’t believe that they are racist as a whole, but the sum of their actions and inactions (as is the case with the majority of the country) more often than not puts people of color at a disadvantage (dead for example).

    so bark on about your experience with evangelicals not being racist. you are arguing with yourself. the straw man is in your mind. my points have been ignored by you in favor of trying to act offended. but this is what you do best.

    in the past few years two of the hot button issues for evangelical americans have been mexicans and the iraq war. they have by and large supported killing iraqi’s by the thousands and the vilification (not just enforcement of laws) of mexicans. if you choose to extrapolate that to say that they are racist, that’s up to you.

  24. December 1, 2006 at 1:59 pm

    i’m done here at this post. jubal’s dishonesty is a tad more annoying than usual. have a nice day.

  25. Dan Chmielewski
    December 1, 2006 at 2:20 pm

    Matt –
    War is about as un-Christian as you can get. Supporting this war against people who did not attack us, in my view, is not very Christian.
    Dan

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